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Bush pushes very hot button. President's comments embolden anti-evolutionists.
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 8/8/05 | Joe Garofoli

Posted on 08/08/2005 6:15:00 PM PDT by Crackingham

The real impact of President Bush weighing in on the national debate over how to teach the origins of life may be felt in the classroom, where much of the anti-evolutionary lobbying is done under the radar.

One tactic is for a student or parent to present the teacher with a list that's popular in conservative circles called, "Ten questions to ask your biology teacher."

The result, observers say, is that some teachers fear even mentioning "the e-word."

"That's what people would somewhat jokingly call it," said Al Janulaw, who spent more than 30 years teaching science in elementary and middle schools. For the past six he has been a Sonoma State University instructor teaching student teachers how to teach science.

The White House entered one of the country's most politically charged red- and-blue battles last week when Bush was asked at a news conference about his views on evolution and intelligent design -- a critique that says Charles Darwin's natural selection theory doesn't explain some features of the natural world.

"I felt like both sides ought to be properly taught," Bush said. "I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought."

The mere fact that Bush mentioned intelligent design on the same footing as evolutionary teaching is being seen as a huge moral boost for anti-Darwin critics.

Although California schools are not in the center of the debate, as are schools in other parts of the country, some of the state's science teachers are apprehensive and see Bush's comments as an unwelcome intrusion of religion into the science curriculum.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bush43; creationism; crevolist; evolutiondebate; intelligentdesign; publicschool; religion; scienceeducation
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To: bobdsmith

Yes you can. It was by design, dare I say intelligent? I'll leave that to the observer. lol


61 posted on 08/08/2005 7:29:19 PM PDT by Ma3lst0rm (Evolution is the survival of the survivors.)
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To: BeerForMyHorses
MSM rule #213: Everyone on the Right should be termed as "anti-" something (antievolution, antiabortion, antichoicerights, etc.) Those on the Left are termed with the more likable "pro-" (prochoice, etc.).

Well the MSM would love to associate the Right with the Know-Nothingism of the Creationist Movement, but in this case they are correct. The push isn't to explain ID or Creation Theory, it's to attack evolution.

And "anti-evolution" takes less ink than "pro-detailing what Creationist claims are problems with the evolution theory"

62 posted on 08/08/2005 7:29:37 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (You're not drunk if you can still lie on the ground without holding onto something)
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To: Crackingham
I really never have struggled with evolution. I don't see how it conflicts religion. While going after my undergraduate degree in biochemistry, I had a lot of time to study evolutionary biology. Instead of substituting science for faith, I grew to have a far deeper appreciation for the wonder of God's creation.

It occured to me that when you consider that there are about 6 billion people on the planet, how few of them ever learn to read? And of those that are literate, how many ever go to college? And of those, how many study the cutting edge theories on evolution? What a special privledge it is to be able to take such a close look into the nature of God's creation. I can't understand why so many creationists are unwilling to try and admire the beauty of God's tapestry.
63 posted on 08/08/2005 7:33:49 PM PDT by dutyhonorcountry
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To: Powerclam
Sorry, but I've never met a Liberal Creationist.

Hang around here. You'll run into a few. They won't admit it, but they like activist judges (so long as they are active on their side) and big government programs (as long as they promote 'right' thinking).

64 posted on 08/08/2005 7:35:16 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: bobdsmith
"Now why would science, bring a quite good method of obtaining knowledge, not be applied to origins?"

Biological evolution is concerned with what happened after the origin of life. (hard science)

The study of the origin of life is usually called abiogenesis. (mainly a philosophy of science)

Scientism (Positivism) is Secular Humanism - a philosophical theory marrying biology to origins.

See this for more

65 posted on 08/08/2005 7:36:14 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law overarching rulers and ruled alike)
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To: AZ_Cowboy
"BTW, hasn't the crevo thread business gotten to be a bit much as of late?"

Typically I ignore them. But yes, lately there seems to be a crevo post for every four or five regarding politics.
It is getting tiresome. It seems to be the same culprits over and over again who start them ( either anti-religion bigots couching the threads in the 'noble pursuit of protecting conservatism', or folks who seem to think to score points by 'protecting the world from ahteism' ).
But it is up to the moderators whether or not the crevo threads are appropriate.
I tend to view them like Iraq--in Iraq, all the crazies tend to go into that country to fight, rather than spread their bile everywhere else. So I guess in that sense, it's a good thing.

K. I'm back to ignoring these threads.

66 posted on 08/08/2005 7:37:16 PM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: supercat
So what evidence would have to be discovered to disprove that all life evolved from a common ancestor? Could such a thing ever really be disproven?

Any modern mammal fossil found in the cambrian would do it.

Explainations made in terms of common ancestory are in fact very testable. A quite precise tree of ancestory has been made for each major group of animals based on fossils found and DNA comparisons. While slight discrepancies with new discoveries against the tree will only cause the tree to be reworked, there is plenty of room for new fossil or DNA find to heavily contradict the tree to the point that no tree is viable at all.

67 posted on 08/08/2005 7:38:25 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: Coyoteman
"That's about the most original and entertaining post on one of these threads in a long time!"

Hey! Don't feed the animals!

But, yes, it was funny.

68 posted on 08/08/2005 7:38:58 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: Powerclam

I've met liberal anti-evolutionists though. Pagans.


69 posted on 08/08/2005 7:40:07 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: Majic
Science is the least tolerant of religions.

Begin babytalk

Science is not a religion.

End babytalk

Science is not tolerant of a lot of things, including superstition, divine revelation, shamans' tales, old wives' tales, prophesies, anecdotes, deliberate corruption of the scientific method, witches' brews, and idiocy in its numerous manifestations. To this we can now add CS and ID.

70 posted on 08/08/2005 7:40:15 PM PDT by Coyoteman
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To: Powerclam; Dinsdale; Crackingham; PatrickHenry
Sorry, but I've never met a Liberal Creationist.

You never met my aunt.

71 posted on 08/08/2005 7:42:20 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (France is an example of retrograde chordate evolution.)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Rev. Jim Jones was a Marxist creationist.


72 posted on 08/08/2005 7:46:18 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: dutyhonorcountry
" I had a lot of time to study evolutionary biology. Instead of substituting science for faith, I grew to have a far deeper appreciation for the wonder of God's creation."

A profound statement!

A study of the early history of America, from the landing at Plymouth Rock to the gathering together of a company of brave and learned men and women in 1776, prompted the same kind of wonder and appreciation in this citizen! Had they not held a firm belief in those "self-evident" truths ("Creator endowed life, liberty and rights," the "laws of nature and of nature's God," "Divine Providence," and a "Supreme Judge of the world"), we in the Year 2005 would not have been born in a land of liberty.

Our rights and the liberty to enjoy them are derived, not from imperfect human beings in positions of power in government, but, as the Founders and most Presidents, including JFK, acknowledged, from "the hand of God."

Any who discount the role and plan of a Creator may do so freely. The Creator has endowed them with that liberty!

73 posted on 08/08/2005 7:52:04 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: bobdsmith
"although I forgot to mention that I recall fish did exist in the cambrian - not entirely sure but I am quite sure."

You are correct.

http://geowords.com/histbooknetscape/j15.htm
74 posted on 08/08/2005 7:53:38 PM PDT by stormer (Get your bachelors, masters, or doctorate now at home in your spare time!)
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To: bobdsmith

No problem. :-)


75 posted on 08/08/2005 8:06:00 PM PDT by Amelia (Common sense isn't particularly common.)
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Comment #76 Removed by Moderator

To: Ma3lst0rm
Not to mention Michael Behe's excellent work on the "irreducibly complex systems" and also the molecular biology studies of Michael Denton. If the proponents of evolution kept truly open and inquiring minds, science would advance a lot faster in this area. Unfortunately, todays evos have turned into the Taliban (flame away...) and rather not discuss the serious flaws in the evolution theory as it stands.
77 posted on 08/08/2005 8:25:46 PM PDT by 05 Mustang GT Rocks
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To: 05 Mustang GT Rocks
flame away...

I'd do a flame to end all flames, but I read your bio page.

Now I'll only say I disagree.

78 posted on 08/08/2005 8:30:03 PM PDT by Coyoteman
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To: Ichneumon; PatrickHenry

post 11 calls for you


79 posted on 08/08/2005 8:32:01 PM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: TonyRo76

> Frodo is fictional.

Yup. So are a great many other people that have been written about.


80 posted on 08/08/2005 8:45:05 PM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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