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Marines Have The Toughest Job!!!
Associated Press Writer Pauline Jelinek | Jarhead1957

Posted on 08/04/2005 5:53:50 AM PDT by Jarhead1957

Brig Gen. Carter Ham, deputy director for operations at the Joint Chiefs of Staff gestures during a Pentagon news conference, Wednesday, Aug. 3, 2005 to discuss Marines in Iraq. A Marine amphibious assault vehicle on patrol during combat operations near the Syrian border hit a roadside bomb Wednesday, and 14 Marines were killed in one of the deadliest single attacks in Iraq against American forces. (AP Photo/Heesoon Yim)

The Marines have one of the roughest assignments in Iraq: pacifying the perpetually restive Anbar province, home to Fallujah, Ramadi and Haditha, all sites of heavy American casualties since the insurgency went into high gear last year.

Underscoring the heavy load, the Marines have taken casualties disproportionate to their numbers in Iraq.

Marines number more than 23,000 out of 138,000 members of the U.S. armed forces in Iraq, or 17 percent. Yet they have lost at least 530 of the more than 1,820 U.S. personnel who have died there, or 29 percent, Marine officials said.

On Wednesday, they lost 14 when a roadside bomb detonated under an amphibious assault vehicle in Haditha in western Iraq. Just two days earlier, seven other Marines died.

Some military experts pointed to Wednesday's attack to note the Marines are performing duties somewhat different from those for which they are organized and equipped. The amphibious vehicle, for example, was designed to get troops ashore and is less armored than some other infantry carriers.

"It's basically designed to get across the beach and get a few dozen miles inland," said John Pike, a military expert with Globalsecurity.org. "The point being, once (Marines) had managed to secure the beachhead and get a few miles inland, the Army would come ashore and take over from there."

Beyond that, occupation and stabilization duties often require expertise and equipment distinct from amphibious assault and the rapid capture of enemy-held territory, experts said.

"The entire Marine force was designed around the concept of amphibious warfare, which is a good deal different from the kind of conflict they're fighting in Iraq today, hundreds of miles from the sea," said Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute think tank. "The Marines are a light force; they kick in the door but they are not supposed to occupy all the rooms."

Still, the service has tried to adapt to changing missions, studying concepts like urban warfare and nonlethal weaponry. Marines took the lead in supplying food during a famine in Somalia in the early 1990s.

They, along with the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, comprised the leading forces in the drive toward Baghdad in 2003.

Since the invasion of Iraq, the Army's effort to keep its troops fresh by rotating them in and out of the country has created a need to use the Marines as a stabilization and counterinsurgency force in parts of the country, experts said.

The Marines killed Wednesday were part of a sweep for insurgents in communities along the Euphrates River between Baghdad and the Syrian border. At the Pentagon, Brig. Gen. Carter Ham said similar operations were under way in several communities at once, to prevent insurgents from skipping to towns without a strong U.S. presence.

He suggested the attacks on the Marines were the insurgents' response to their stepped-up operations.

The Marines killed Wednesday were assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines based in Brook Park, Ohio, a Cleveland suburb, and attached to the Regimental Combat Team 2. Nine of them were from a single smaller unit in Columbus. A civilian translator also was killed and one Marine was wounded.

Six more Marines were killed in Haditha earlier this week. A seventh was killed by a car bomb in Hit.

In November, Marines led the assault to retake Fallujah, an insurgent stronghold 40 miles west of Baghdad. They had regular clashes with insurgents there and in nearby Ramadi for months before.

In January, 30 Marines, along with a Navy sailor, were killed when their helicopter went down in bad weather. The military, however, still has not issued a finding on the cause of the crash.

___

Associated Press Writer Pauline Jelinek contributed to this story.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cnim; gnfi; marines
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To: Bigturbowski

Truce?


41 posted on 08/04/2005 6:50:02 AM PDT by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.)
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To: 91B

I know.
My brother-in-law's father fought at Saipan, was stabbed in the gut with a bayonnet and received the Silver Star.

He was US Army.
The US Army participated in nearly every campaign/battle the USMC fought in WWII. One of the toughest fights (if not THE toughest) was the Burma Trail operations with General Frank D. Merrill. "Merrill's Marauder's" marched longer and fought harder than any unit in WWII (IMHO, of course).

But, I still admire those Jarheads that stormed ashore in the initial waves.


42 posted on 08/04/2005 6:53:48 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: SJSAMPLE

Well I can say this, MY boots were on the ground IN Saudi Arabia on August 13, 2000. Didn't see any Army around there at that time. Lead force? Hmmm... I have questions about that but I cannot say I know if thats true or not. Maybe you were the lead force and thats why we sat waiting so long. Yeah they would have sent our squad in and done the job. That is the job of the Marines as stated earlier. We kick the door in, but we can't occupy every room of the house, we aren't as big as the Army.


43 posted on 08/04/2005 6:54:48 AM PDT by Bigturbowski
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To: 91B

What the hell is your problem? We are all on the same side, but you have a chip on your shoulder a mile wide.

Chill out


44 posted on 08/04/2005 6:57:07 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (3-7-77 (No that's not a Date))
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To: 91B

NO, this article was bound to provoke some defensive comments from both sides. Yes, maybe I took a cheap shot I guess, but I am not defensive about anything said, this arguement has gone on since the creation of the armed forces, and will never end.


45 posted on 08/04/2005 6:57:12 AM PDT by Bigturbowski
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To: 91B

Truce!


46 posted on 08/04/2005 6:58:28 AM PDT by Bigturbowski
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To: Leatherneck_MT

My problem is that some jerk started this thread to run down my branch of the service. Implying that we are not pulling our weight. Don't you think I should have a chip on my shoulder about that? Do you expect me to just take it and not reply? Go away.


47 posted on 08/04/2005 7:01:27 AM PDT by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

If you can point to anything I have said that is not true, please do so. Marines are not the only veterans entitled to be proud of their service.


48 posted on 08/04/2005 7:04:42 AM PDT by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.)
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To: ducks1944; Ragtime Cowgirl; Alamo-Girl; TrueBeliever9; maestro; TEXOKIE; My back yard; djreece; ...
Brig Gen. Carter Ham, deputy director for operations at the Joint Chiefs of Staff gestures during a Pentagon news conference, Wednesday, Aug. 3, 2005 to discuss Marines in Iraq. A Marine amphibious assault vehicle on patrol during combat operations near the Syrian border hit a roadside bomb Wednesday, and 14 Marines were killed in one of the deadliest single attacks in Iraq against American forces.
49 posted on 08/04/2005 7:06:32 AM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Bigturbowski
this arguement has gone on since the creation of the armed forces, and will never end.

True-I think there was no offense intended on your part, just straight interservice bickering.

50 posted on 08/04/2005 7:08:56 AM PDT by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.)
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To: 91B

I never said you didn't have a right to be proud of your branch of the service. What I did ask you to do was chill out.

We have boys dying overseas, Army, Marines, Air Force, Navy.

They are ALL Americans.

My Father was a tail gunner on a B17 in WWII. He was proud of his service and I also am proud of what he did.

The angst needs to stop, we are, after all, brothers in Arms.

Semper Fi


51 posted on 08/04/2005 7:11:01 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (3-7-77 (No that's not a Date))
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To: Leatherneck_MT

Tell it to the guy who started this thread to run down the Army. I am only defending my service. Why did you choose to reply to me instead of him?


52 posted on 08/04/2005 7:13:17 AM PDT by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.)
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To: Jarhead1957

Enough is enough. Me thinks it's time to finally operationally verify the effectiveness of our post world war 2 nuclear arsenal. I believe the Anbhar province would make a wonderful test site.


53 posted on 08/04/2005 7:13:24 AM PDT by hiramknight
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To: 91B

I chose to respond to you because of the venom in your posts.

I am a retired Marine but I don't feel that the Marines are the only ones doing a tough job over there.

I do take exception to your "oohrah" comments on a thread that lists the deaths of 14 of my comrades.

They are unnecessary and childish.


54 posted on 08/04/2005 7:17:26 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (3-7-77 (No that's not a Date))
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To: Jarhead1957
The Marines did not even have M1A1's in the first Iraq get together.

Incorrect. I MEF did indeed have M1A1s in Desert Storm serving with 2d Tank Battalion and elements of 4th Tank Battalion. 60 M1A1s were borrowed from the Army, in exchange for some LAVs, and 16 were new builds. Following the skirmish the Army got their Abrams back.

55 posted on 08/04/2005 7:18:06 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Jarhead1957
I think this news article answers my question well. They are on rotation.

You are making the fundamental mistake that you assume this reporter knows what she is talking about. When is that ever true? Let's take a look at the facts:

The USMC, currently II MEF is responsible for Al Anbar Province and other piece of turf in Western Iraq. Current task organization is built around 2 Marine Regimental Combat Teams and 2 Army Brigade Combat Teams. The toughest fight in Iraq is being carried out by BOTH the Army and the Marines fighting under Marine command. Marines and Army troops are cross attached at brigade/regt and lower levels to take advantage of capabilities unique to each unit. Unlike some of the sniping and ignorance evident in this thread - our soldiers and marines are fighting TOGETHER

The 2d Brigade, 2d Infantry Division, who just left Ramadi have been fighting under Marine control for a year. They had a Marine battalion (1/5 MAR) attached. The Chief of Staff of the Army recently approved a request by them to wear the 1st Marine Division patch as their combat patch in lieu of their own 2d Division patch. Some may remember that in World War I, the 2d Division consisted of an Army brigade and a Marine brigade - Deja Vu all over again.

Rotation: Again, the reporter is clueless. Army troops are on 12-month rotations, but some have served longer. Many of the troops rotating now are going back for their 2d full year rotation. Marine Corps rotations are for about 7 months, give or take. At least one USMC unit is on its 3d 6/7 month rotation. The Marine Corps is fighting in Iraq because that is what they do. Oh, by the way, the Army is fighting too - with 15 brigade combat teams currently on the ground.

Marine Corps infantry battalions are experiencing about 2x the numbers of KIA as Army infantry battalions. This statistic holds true for Army battalions that are fighting in the Marine TAOR. The 3/25 Marines are now the most bloodied unit in Iraq. I don't know why this is, but I certainly hope that the leadership is looking into it.

56 posted on 08/04/2005 7:21:19 AM PDT by centurion316 (Never apologize, its a sign of weakness)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

But using that occasion to start a thread to run down another service isn't? I said that to those who were disrespectful of my service, they were deserving of my venom. Are you reluctant to admonish a fellow Marine, or do you think his comments are justified?


57 posted on 08/04/2005 7:22:23 AM PDT by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.)
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To: 91B
Heres some more old jokes.


58 posted on 08/04/2005 7:26:33 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: XJarhead
Ping!

You might want to comment on the performance of the Army Reserves in Gulf War I compared to the Marine Reserves.

59 posted on 08/04/2005 7:26:47 AM PDT by You Dirty Rats (Vote for Jean Schmidt Aug 2)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

OK-why Bradley?


60 posted on 08/04/2005 7:28:02 AM PDT by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.)
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