Posted on 07/30/2005 11:03:54 AM PDT by mhuye
Salty dogma
Bono gives an explicit confession of being saved by Grace, not Karma | by Gene Edward Veith
Is Bono, the lead singer and songwriter for the rock group U2, a Christian? He says he is and writes about Christianity in his lyrics. Yet many people question whether Bono is "really" a Christian, due to his notoriously bad language, liberal politics, and rock star antics (though he has been faithfully married for 23 years). But in a new book of interviews, Bono in Conversation by Michka Assayas, Bono, though using some salty language, makes an explicit confession of faith.
The interviewer, Mr. Assayas, begins by asking Bono, Doesn't he think "appalling things" happen when people become religious? Bono counters, "It's a mind-blowing concept that the God who created the Universe might be looking for company, a real relationship with people, but the thing that keeps me on my knees is the difference between Grace and Karma."
The interviewer asks, What's that? "At the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics—in physical laws—every action is met by an equal or an opposite one," explains Bono. "And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that. . . . Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I've done a lot of stupid stuff."
The interviewer asks, Like what? "That's between me and God. But I'd be in big trouble if Karma was going to finally be my judge," says Bono. "It doesn't excuse my mistakes, but I'm holding out for Grace. I'm holding out that Jesus took my sins onto the Cross, because I know who I am, and I hope I don't have to depend on my own religiosity."
Then the interviewer marvels, "The Son of God who takes away the sins of the world. I wish I could believe in that."
"The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death," replies Bono. "It's not our own good works that get us through the gates of Heaven."
The interviewer marvels some more: "That's a great idea, no denying it. Such great hope is wonderful, even though it's close to lunacy, in my view. Christ has His rank among the world's great thinkers. But Son of God, isn't that farfetched?"
Bono comes back, "Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: He was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn't allow you that. He doesn't let you off that hook. Christ says, No. I'm not saying I'm a teacher, don't call me teacher. I'm not saying I'm a prophet. I'm saying: 'I'm the Messiah.' I'm saying: 'I am God incarnate.' . . . So what you're left with is either Christ was who He said He was—the Messiah—or a complete nutcase. . . . The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase, for me that's farfetched."
What is most interesting in this exchange is the reaction of the interviewer, to whom Bono is, in effect, witnessing. This hip rock journalist starts by scorning what he thinks is Christianity. But it is as if he had never heard of grace, the atonement, the deity of Christ, the gospel. And he probably hadn't. But when he hears what Christianity is actually all about, he is amazed.
An eye for an eye is just retribution, without the repentance required for salvation. Most violent criminals never repent, and would commit their crimes again, so I believe that the death penalty in most murder cases is just punishment. Does that make sense?
thank you all
I am exhausted! from packing. (It doesn't help that it's been in the 80's, but better to have that the rain.) Fortunately a neighbor came over today and helped finish up packing my kitchen, lamps, my desktop, etc. I had made my last trip (ran out of time to do more) to the Goodwill to donate items and when we came across more items in the kitchen, she took them to her house to donate or keep. Also, two men neighbors are going to help my moving crew friends tomorrow morning to load the truck at the old homestead, which will really help extend the strength of the guys who get to haul things up the stairs at the new place, and get the work done more quickly.
Monday I get to return to finish cleaning here.
Friends are a good thing.
Indeed!
thank you all translation polish english
A classic line - you should copyright it! lol
God bless Bono. May he continue to share his faith.
May ALL areas of his life become consistent with that faith.
May other people have good seed planted and watered in them by hearing his testimony, may their eyes be opened, may they turn from darkness to light, from the enemy's power to God's power, may they find forgiveness of sins, and may they by faith share with those who are sanctified and have an inheritance in God's eternal kingdom. Acts 26:18
Thanks mhuye, good thread.
I had learned that the melody we sing Newton's words to may have originally been a tune sung by slaves from a PBS special "Amazing Grace." I had assumed that assertion was based on solid scholarship. I am looking for some sources, but so far it seems that no one can trace the tune beyond being a "plantation song." I apologize for making the statement so unequivocally based on memory (and on a PBS program!).
Even the best of Christians sin.
Oh, I aint mad about it, Sorry if I sounded like I was! :)
I just knee jerked reacted, like when I hear that "Almost all our old hymns are pub songs" comments...that gets me roiled
Or that "Luther used Tavern Music" to write his hymns
I remember reading that there is only 3 songs that cvan ever be proved were tavern songs of all the hyms written in the 1800's, and no proof of one used by Luther that wasn't a common song all around, used by tavern singers also, but also by common farmers more often in the field, not the bars.
Wish Iremembered which song that was.
So essentially, you think he (Christ) was just joking in Mathew that I quoted? Pity.
I am glad that you can speak for god. He always tells me that he doesn't do nuance.
Now, without getting too critical, typical non-christians who do not view Jesus in a negative light will say "Jesus was a great teacher". Of course he was. All Bono is trying to say is that Jesus was not a teacher. Of course he taught and could be called teacher by those of us in the flock.
However to call him a teacher to a secular person allows them to jump on the "Hey Jesus was a great teacher, but christians are confused thinking he was God."
You have been responded to by others besides me, and all they are doing us telling you that Bono is using a paraphrased version of CS Lewis, statement. Either he was nuts, or a complete liar, or else he is what he claimed -- The messiah. That implies a lot more than being a teacher.
Not that I could find.
That's concisely, perfectly stated.
I like Bono, personally, as long as he's not being generous with MY money. I can be quite charitable all by myself thanks.
As for his views on Jesus, they used to be a worship band before they got a contract. hello...
It appears to be an attempt to rewrite history:
The origin of the melody is unknown. Most hymnals attribute it to an early American folk melody. The Bill Moyers special on “Amazing Grace” speculated that it may have originated as the tune of a song the slaves sang. From here.
I believe this makes the most sense and is probably the truth:
The melody is believed to be Scottish or Irish in origin; it is pentatonic and suggests a bagpipe tune; the hymn is frequently performed on bagpipes and has become associated with that instrument. The other tune is the so-called "Old Regualr Baptist" tune. It was sung by the Congregation of the Little Zion Church, Jeff, Kentucky on the album "The Ritchie Family of Kentucky" on Folkways (1958).From Wikipedia
I dont trust a thing Bill Moyers says...That guy is too much! :)
:}}}}}}}}}}}}}}NO Problem:}}}}}}}}}}thank you
Is this the Sunday that changes my music library after 50+ years? What classical music is "safe", if any?
This is not the first time I have addressed this issue of music and it's roll in my life.
So, I get to keep my music library?
Amen! Well said.
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