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Ratzinger - "Very Soon It Will Not Be Possible to State That Homosexuality is an Objective Disorder"
LifeSite ^ | July 28, 2005

Posted on 07/29/2005 9:54:14 AM PDT by NYer

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To: GirlShortstop
Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought. Pope JPII

So, what ought I do? Get a golden retriever or a black lab? Should I get my woman a bracelet or something else she wants? How should I exercise my freedom in such circumstances?
61 posted on 07/29/2005 11:58:59 AM PDT by BikerNYC
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To: BikerNYC
So, what ought I do? Get a golden retriever or a black lab? Should I get my woman a bracelet or something else she wants? How should I exercise my freedom in such circumstances?

Stop playing games...

62 posted on 07/29/2005 12:04:02 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: Stone Mountain
Don't religious scholars disagree on what God's law is?

Of course they do.

As Aquinas pointed out, our natural capacity for truth is conditioned by our nature - God is infinite and we are finite.

We can only grasp so much.

The Church, unlike scholars, is not a purely human institution and has access to reliable truths.

63 posted on 07/29/2005 12:06:00 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander in Chief)
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To: DBeers

It's not a game. I don't agree that all choices involve moral decision making. To claim that freedom is doing what one ought to do is ridiculous.


64 posted on 07/29/2005 12:13:22 PM PDT by BikerNYC
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To: GirlShortstop
Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought. Pope JPII

Welcome back!! Here's a JPII quote for your collection ...

“The Son of God became man in order to restore all creation, in one supreme act of praise, to the One who made it from nothing.” John Paul II

65 posted on 07/29/2005 12:14:32 PM PDT by NYer ("Each person is meant to exist. Each person is God's own idea." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: BikerNYC
It's not a game. I don't agree that all choices involve moral decision making. To claim that freedom is doing what one ought to do is ridiculous.

I suggest you if Catholic may require further education? Authentic freedom is only attained by adhering to truth -that which the Church teaches...What one ought to do is the path to freedom... capiche -nothing ridulous about it... The examples you argue that have no moral basis and as such irrelevant to anything save but moral relative gaming... I would suggest you also seek to understand the differrence between absolute truth and moral relative 'truth'...

66 posted on 07/29/2005 12:21:51 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: fortunecookie
The American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual II listed homosexuality as a mental disorder; in 1973 it was de-listed because of political pressure, not valid medical science, and we have gone down the road to perdition a hell of a long way since. Just because the fools voted to remove it from the manual of disorders doesn't mean it is normal behavior. There is evidence that suggests that it is related to the group of mental illnesses called OCD - Obsessive Compulsive Disorders. My observations tend to corroborate that idea.
67 posted on 07/29/2005 12:29:30 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: 45Auto
it was de-listed because of political pressure

It was de listed when homosexuals won a majority of the APA board. It of course played into the democratic political camp as the democrats needed to squeeze a few more votes into their multicultural tent.

Whether or not it is a disorder, it is certainly not wished for on the part of new parents. If a genetic or in womb cause is ever found one can be sure that homosexuality will be eradicated from the population as quickly as was polio. (When such an event occurs, watch how quickly homosexuality goes beyond normalcy and becomes something society cannot live without. But of course we can, it is normal society that homosexuality cannot live without.)

68 posted on 07/29/2005 12:38:55 PM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: NYer

I'm glad to see this Pope speak out on these subjects. This frank discussion is long overdue in Europe as well as America.


69 posted on 07/29/2005 12:42:23 PM PDT by Gritty ("Excluding religion from the public sphere results from false dogmas of freedom - Pope Benedict)
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To: kharaku

China is too, outcome to follow.


70 posted on 07/29/2005 12:52:13 PM PDT by printhead
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To: Stone Mountain
The Pope's perspective is not subjective because God has ordered reality according to His law and anything which contravenes that law is disordered. That law is objective reality.

Your reply:

I'm not sure about that last part. Don't religious scholars disagree on what God's law is?

Yes they do. But we're talking about the Pope, the Vicar of Christ.. Not just some religious scholar. On Faith and Morals he's speaking with the guidance of the Holy Ghost. And it's infallible.

Religious scholars may have any number of opinions. And they are just that, opinions. When the Pope speaks excathedra on these issues it's no longer an opinion. It's truth.

71 posted on 07/29/2005 12:54:13 PM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("Memos on Bush Are Fake but Accurate". NYTimes)
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To: 45Auto

I'm a psychology major, but--alas--at a very politically correct time, so I doubt I'll hear about this in any classes and would probably get lynched if I asked. May I ask what the evidence is that supports homosexuality being related to OCD?


72 posted on 07/29/2005 12:56:39 PM PDT by sporkgoddess
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To: NYer
“the concept of discrimination is ever more extended, and so the prohibition of discrimination can be increasingly transformed into a limitation of the freedom of opinion.”

I agree with the Pope wholeheartedly.

It is interesting to see a Pope express such a defense of free speech.

73 posted on 07/29/2005 12:58:45 PM PDT by Modernman ("A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy." -Disraeli)
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To: Albion Wilde
The ony real freedom is the freedom to choose the right thing or to choose to learn from and repent of mistakes.

Perhaps. However, in a political context, the government is a poor agent for determining what is "right" outside of a very narrow band (such as outlawing nonconsensual harm to person or property).

74 posted on 07/29/2005 1:02:38 PM PDT by Modernman ("A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy." -Disraeli)
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To: FearNoMan

What dictionary is that from?


75 posted on 07/29/2005 1:04:36 PM PDT by conserv13
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan; Stone Mountain
On Faith and Morals he's speaking with the guidance of the Holy Ghost. And it's infallible.

Well, isn't that the whole debate? As a Catholic, that is your position. However, no other religion accepts that claim (AFAIK).

The Catholic claim that the Pope speaks with the guidance of the Holy Ghost is only persuasive to Catholics.

When the Pope speaks excathedra on these issues it's no longer an opinion. It's truth.

For Catholics, sure.

76 posted on 07/29/2005 1:08:33 PM PDT by Modernman ("A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy." -Disraeli)
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To: NYer
In the conclusion of Cardinal Ratzinger’s lecture, now Pope Benedict XVI...

This is just what I predicted.

Notice how they are trying to undermine the Pope by refusing to recognize him as the Pope? Instead, they refer to him as Pope in the opening sentence and then revert back to his Cardinal name for the rest of the article.

When has the media EVER done that before?

-PJ

77 posted on 07/29/2005 1:12:21 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: Modernman
It is interesting to see a Pope express such a defense of free speech.

The morning of the Conclave, Cardinal Ratzinger said the Mass and delivered a amazing homily, in which he commented:

* * * * *

"How many winds of doctrine have we known in recent decades, how many ideological currents, how many ways of thinking. The small boat of the thought of many Christians has often been tossed about by these waves - flung from one extreme to another: from Marxism to liberalism, even to libertinism; from collectivism to radical individualism; from atheism to a vague religious mysticism; from agnosticism to syncretism and so forth. Every day new sects spring up, and what St Paul says about human deception and the trickery that strives to entice people into error (cf. Eph 4: 14) comes true.

Today, having a clear faith based on the Creed of the Church is often labeled as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, that is, letting oneself be "tossed here and there, carried about by every wind of doctrine", seems the only attitude that can cope with modern times. We are building a dictatorship of relativism that does not recognize anything as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of one's own ego and desires."

FULL TEXT

78 posted on 07/29/2005 1:13:21 PM PDT by NYer ("Each person is meant to exist. Each person is God's own idea." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: mountn man
The Bible says that God ABHORS homosexuality.

Ah, but is "homosexuality" both the same-sex attraction or the same-sex attraction plus homosexual acts? I would say that it is the act that is sinful.

An analogy with alcohol is appropriate: a person may have a propensity to become an alcoholic, much like a person may have the propensity to be attracted to members of the same sex. The would-be alcoholic can choose to avoid all alcohol, thereby avoiding drunkenness. Likewise, the person attracted to members of the same sex can avoid sexual situations. Thus, he avoids homosexual acts.
79 posted on 07/29/2005 1:18:26 PM PDT by hispanichoosier
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To: Graymatter
I am fervently wishing B16 a long, long life. :)

May God answer you prayer ;-D

80 posted on 07/29/2005 1:23:03 PM PDT by NYer ("Each person is meant to exist. Each person is God's own idea." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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