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To: N3WBI3
Your reply shows little understanding of Catholicism.

1) If repetition is undesirable in a prayer, you have a problem with most of the Psalms. If your text is intended, not to criticize repetition of words but to accuse Catholics of not meaning what they say, you're out of line.

2) What exactly do you think a "sacrament" is? Do you think the sacraments as defined by the Catholics are delusions and not real occasions of God's action? Because if they are REAL, then focusing on them is perfectly appropriate. You say they mean "nothing", so you'd better explain WHEN the sacraments the Catholic church celebrates stopped meaning anything (or, if they never meant anything, you'd better explain when the sacraments of YOUR church started to mean something).

3) Please identify the actual "co-redeemer" doctrine you take issue with. Mary's role in our salvation is simply that without her "fiat" to God, Jesus would not have been born. This is an essential role, but that doesn't make her equal to Jesus. I can't tell whether there is a specific teaching of the Catholic church about this that you claim is false, or whether the teaching you claim is false is not the actual doctrine. Please elaborate.

4) *Sigh* You Protestants never seem to get this point no matter how often it is explained. We Catholics believe that saints exist, now, in heaven (not that heaven is empty of human souls until the final resurrection on the last day). Just as you may ask a friend to pray for something that is important to you, you may ask a saint to pray. A saint cannot GRANT a prayer, just as your friend can't; you are not praying TO your friend when you ask him to pray for you, nor are you "praying to" a saint when you ask the saint to pray for you. To reject this, you must either believe that saints are not, yet, in heaven, or else that they cannot ever hear anything we say to them, or else that in heaven they never pray, or else that it is inappropriate to ask someone else to pray for you.

691 posted on 07/17/2005 12:07:27 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: VeritatisSplendor
If repetition is undesirable in a prayer, you have a problem with most of the Psalms. If your text is intended, not to criticize repetition of words but to accuse Catholics of not meaning what they say, you're out of line.

Hey where did I say it was undesirable, I quoted to you scripture take from it what you wish.

What exactly do you think a "sacrament" is? Do you think the sacraments as defined by the Catholics are delusions and not real occasions of God's action?

Question 1) Catholic sac's are Baptism, First Communion (in the catholic church), Confirmation (in the catholic church), Marriage (in the catholic church), Last Rights, Confession (to a priest)

Question 2) All things are actions of God! how many times was Pharaoh ready to conceded when *God* hardend his heart!

Mary's role in our salvation is simply that without her "fiat" to God, Jesus would not have been born

I see God needed Mary right?

We Catholics believe that saints exist, now, in heaven (not that heaven is empty of human souls until the final resurrection on the last day). Just as you may ask a friend to pray for something that is important to you, you may ask a saint to pray.

And are these saints omni-present?

To reject this, you must either believe that saints are not, yet, in heaven, or else that they cannot ever hear anything we say to them, or else that in heaven they never pray, or else that it is inappropriate to ask someone else to pray for you.

Bingo! I will add that you are using a saint as a medium to God and the Bible clearly states that such behavior is wrong.

694 posted on 07/17/2005 12:45:05 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (If SCO wants to go fishing they should buy a permit and find a lake like the rest of us..)
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