Lunch break :)
Posted on 07/14/2005 6:10:21 AM PDT by robowombat
Bias against Southerners misses the mark By RICHARD COX Published July 11, 2005
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Does prejudice exist in Pasco County, an area with a very diverse population and seemingly very progressive?
I am certain that African-Americans, Hispanics and people from other countries, the poor and homeless, as well as members of certain religious faiths, experience treatment different from the mainstream populace. However, I am a member of a minority who has experienced attitudes and reactions from many individuals who assume that I am intellectually and socially challenged.
A very large percentage of the population of New Port Richey in particular is from the Northeast. I personally like the outspokenness, mince-no-words attitude, the ability to criticize as well as accept criticism without being offended, that seems to represent the culture in which Northerners grew up.
My family members seem to have the disadvantage of being born and living most of our lives in the South, in our case, Tennessee. I grew up in Knoxville, a city that many people seem to associate only with the fanatical behavior of our college football fans, and my wife is from a small city near Chattanooga.
There still seems to be a stereotype that some people associate with Tennesseans. When those individuals heard the distinct accent of my wife, my stepdaughter, and myself, it seemed to conjure up that redneck image one might associate with the humor of Jeff Foxworthy and other Southern comedians. That image is of a culture of ignorant hillbillies (certainly due to inbreeding!), barefoot, living in a shack with no indoor plumbing (but certainly an outhouse in back), having a dog living under the front porch, and owning an overgrown lawn populated with broken-down, dilapidated automobiles. And, yes, we all chew tobacco and sit on the front porch swing playing the banjo. Everyone also flies a Confederate flag and reminisces about the War Between the States.
I first noticed this attitude when my stepdaughter, an honor student, came home from middle school several days in tears because several other students harassed her daily, calling her an ignorant redneck and hillbilly among other derogatory terms. My wife and I have experienced the sudden change in facial expressions from many when they hear our accent. They seem to associate our accent with ignorance, and speak in simpler terms so that we can understand what they are saying. Telephone conversations often produce the same reaction.
I beg to differ. Tennessee is the home of several major universities, four major metropolitan areas with all the drug and gang problems associated with other large cities, and the most visited national park in the United States. Oak Ridge, in the Knoxville area, probably has as high a percentage of residents with doctorate degrees as any city in the United States. Tennessee has a musical heritage equal to none, and it is not exclusively country or bluegrass genres. Many nationally prominent politicians are from my home state, including three former presidents.
Tennessee has produced many famous musicians, actors, scientists and other intellectual and talented natives.
Well, to set the story straight, rural areas of most states have their own populace and dwellings that approach this stereotype.
My wife and I grew up in your average suburban neighborhoods, we both graduated from major universities and had successful professional careers, and, to risk seeming boastful, are probably as intelligent and knowledgeable, if not more so, than the average American. Believe it or not, East Tennessee, the section of the state we are from, fervently supported the Union during the Civil War.
I have noticed in the Pasco Times notices of meetings for various groups from areas of the Northeast and from other countries. Perhaps Southerners in our area should form a similar group. With apologies to an African-American group with a similar title, we could call our group the NAASF, the National Association for the Advancement of Southern Folks, Pasco County Branch. I hope there are enough local Southern residents available to attract to our organization.
--Richard Cox, a retired middle school science teacher and department head, lives in New Port Richey
Lunch break :)
Now...THAT looks absolutely yummy!
I know bourbon quite well.
Well enough to ask you to reread his posts.
You are ascribing sentiments to him that don't apply.
Methinks thou dost protest too much. I've said nothing to denigrate other regions of this great nation, but having others complaining because I show a special affinity to the region and culture that I was reared and currently live in I find humorous. Do I detect envy?
I have a special affinity to the state and regional culture that I live in and personally think that there's not a better place on Earth to live, but I suspect most other folks feel the same way about their particular state/region/culture/heritage. If they don't, then sad for them.
This bears repeating again. I can crow about the South if I want to (free speech and all that..)- you can too about where you live, if you feel so inclined. It won't offend me. To each his own.
Maybe they take a more realistic or balanced view of things. If you live in a Northern state you'll have plenty of things to complain about -- weather, potholes, traffic, politicians, taxes -- but you'll also have things you can take pride in.
I do not consider my viewpoint unrealistic or unbalanced. Sounds like you think we should all be exactly the same. I prefer a unified but somewhat non-homogenized culture. We are all Americans, yes - we are all exactly the same, no.
It looks as though some Southerners have to be the best in everything.
I never said any such thing. Those are your words, not mine.
Not just now, but also through all time. And anything that gets in the way of that is denied. They play on the whole "red state" "blue state" thing to dismiss some really positive things about the Northeast or the West Coast.
Boy! If you think Southerners have a lock on this type of behavior, you need to read more postings in FR more often.
There's nothing wrong with loving one's state or region as it is with all its good and bad qualities, but pretending it's perfect gets people into trouble.
Show me where I ever said the South was perfect and I'll gladly apologize. My only statement has been to express my personal affinity for the region of this great nation that I live in, warts and all. If others don't feel similarly, well sad for them.
See my Post # 578 for clarification re: my original question.
I've seen you say before (and I'm paraphrasing here) that "we should put the whole Northerners vs. Southerners thing behind us for the moment and focus on greater threats that don't give a d-mn about the distinction between Northerners and Southerners (like Osama's brand of militant Islam)."
I was taking your comments at face-value. I thought this was your cause (and our cause), but maybe I'm wrong about that too?
On the contrary, it is you who are the troll. Or is anyone who says something you don't like a "troll"?
"We'll rough up your womenfolk while you watch, post handbills calling them "women of the town, plying their avocations"
No, you got this wrong.
That decree was issued in response to the women of the town throwing urine and feces (no toilets back then) from the upper floors onto passing soldiers. The commander issued this decree in response, saying that any woman who did that, would be treated thusly. You post imply's that All women were treated so, which is an un-gentelemanly slur for which you should apologize. Since you are obviously such a southern genteleman, I'm, sure you will.
"We'll rough up your womenfolk while you watch, post handbills calling them "women of the town, plying their avocations"
No, you got this wrong.
That decree was issued in response to the women of the town throwing urine and feces (no toilets back then) from the upper floors onto passing soldiers. The commander issued this decree in response, saying that any woman who did that, would be treated thusly. You post imply's that All women were treated so, which is an un-gentelemanly slur for which you should apologize. Since you are obviously such a southern genteleman, I'm, sure you will.
If we are going there, then let's give the Germans, Alsace-Lorraine. The French don't deserve it :)
'One of the first administrative acts which emanated from Brigadier-General Butler as military Commander of New Orleans was the Order No. 28, commanding that the whole female population of that city should be subjected to outrage and infamy, as common women of the town.'
Rose O'Neal Greenhow, My Imprisonment and the First Year of Abolition Rule at Washington, London: Richard Bentley, (1863), p. 297.
'This hideous, cross-eyed beast [Butler] orders his men to treat the ladies of New Orleans as women of the town - to punish them, he says, for their insolence/'
Mary Boykin Chestnut, A Diary From Dixie, New York, NY: D. Appleton & Co. (1905), p. 165.
As the officers and soldiers of the United States have been subject to repeated insults from the women (calling themselves ladies) of New Orleans in return for the most scrupulous non-interference and courtesy on our part, it is ordered that hereafter when any female shall by word, gesture, or movement insult or show contempt for any officer or soldier of the United States she shall be regarded and held liable to be treated as a woman of the town plying her avocation.
By command of Major-General Butler:
It should also be pointed out that neither Mary Chesnutt nor Rose Greenhow spent any time in New Orleans under Butler's occupation of the city, so your oh-so-outraged quotes are only repeating southern propaganda.
"* While Farragut was struggling upstream, Major General Benjamin Butler was settling into his role as military dictator of New Orleans. The first thing to do was to put the fear of Federal law into the citizens. The women of the city were a particular problem in this respect, since no Southern gentleman would ever treat a proper lady with the slightest public disrespect, and, accustomed to such privilege, the women used it to its full advantage to snub, insult, and generally harass Union men. After a woman dumped a bucket of slop from a window onto Farragut's head, Butler acted. He issued General Order Number 28 on 15 May:
BEGIN QUOTE:
As the officers and soldiers of the United States have been subject to repeated insults from the women (calling themselves ladies) of New Orleans, in return for the most scrupulous non-interference on our part, it is ordered that hereafter, when any female shall, by word, gesture, or movement insult or show contempt for any officer or soldier on the United States, she shall be regarded and held liable to be treated as a woman of the town plying her avocation.
END QUOTE
Opinion is propaganda? Clara Solomon protested against it, as did Mrs. Eugenia Phillips, the latter imprisioned. Both were residents of New Orleans. Some of the contempt shown Union soldiers was:
Removing themselves from the scene when a union soldier appeared
Spitting on Union troops
Swapping sides of the streets to avoid Union soldiers
Singing patriotic Southern songs like 'Dixie' in their presence
Turning their backs to the soldiers
Refusing to communicate with Union soldiers
Closing stores to Union soldiers
Refusing Union scrip, demanding gold or Confederate monies
Union soldiers were insulted - did they expect applause for killing the womens husbands and sons? Butler orders any women insulting them further to be treated as a prostitute. The order was seen as intending to allow the legitimate rape of the women of New Orleans:
'What else than contempt and abhorrence can the women of New Orleans feel or exhibit for these officers and soldiers of the United States? The spontaneous impulse of their hearts must appear involuntary upon their countenances and thus constitute the crime for which the general of those soldiers adjudges the punishment of rape and brutalized passion.'
LA Gov. Thomas Overton Moore
'I will venture to say that no example can be found in the history of civilized nations till the publication of this order of a general guilty in cold blood of so infamous an act as deliberately to hand over the female inhabitants of a conquered city to the unbridled license of an unrestrained soldiety.'
British Prime Minister Viscount Palmerston (Henry John Temple) cited by Robert Werlich, "Beast" Butler: The Incredible Career of Union Major General Benjamin F. Butler, Washington, D.C.: The Quaker Press (1962), p. 39.
None of our business. Foreign entanglements, remember?
Forward engagement of an enemy is one thing, and much to be desired. Intermeddling between the Xhosa and the Ama-Zulus, or between the Poles and the Prussians, is quite another.
You have drawn attention to the fact that certain women had given offense to the Union occupiers (who were, by the way, doing what exactly in someone else's city?) in a way that certainly could have been rebuked fairly and to the point. However, Butler, acting -- as we now know, having had ample materials from which to research his personality, his character, and his way of indulging his weaknesses such as sectional hostility (of his own -- he hated Southerners before he went South, and he put on a uniform quite precisely so that he could make war on them because he hated them) -- very broadly and insultingly, put up his broadside not to rebuke specific individuals, but to insult the women of the entire city, including women who hadn't even had any contact with Federal troops and so could have given no offense, and to threaten them with dishonorable treatment in the round, if they should ever give even the slightest indication that the invading horde were not welcome. His threat was oppressive and rude and meant to humiliate people who couldn't fight back, because he hated them.
As the bearer of a username drawn from a country that has itself had more than enough experience of invading hordes and their crudities, one would think you would sympathize with the indignant Orleanians.
on the documentary (on the History Channel), "A Secret History of the KKK", the NATIONAL HQ of ALL the various klan groups was CLEARLY identified as being in OHIO. (NOTE: at the time, we talked about this very subject on FR. you KNOW this.)
also the same documentary stated that NY state had more KKK-morons in 2004 than ALL 7 of the original CSA states COMBINED! (SORRY, but you lose AGAIN!)
free dixie,sw
instead, you were trying, UNSUCESSFULLY, to change the subject & DENY the UNcomfortable FACTS about the utter RACISM, LUNACY & PREJUDICE of many of the DAMNyankees.
that, imVho, is FAR WORSE!
free dixie,sw
I've seen the program in question and I don't remember that part in it at all.
also the same documentary stated that NY state had more KKK-morons in 2004 than ALL 7 of the original CSA states COMBINED
Likewise, I don't remember that part being in it at all.
see the posts of "m.eSPINola" for a grand example.
he is either a TROLL and/or a MORON. i can't decide which/both.
free dixie,sw
in this particular case, you don't know what you're talking about.
free dixie,sw
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