NASA Aims For Mars Two Years After Columbia Disaster

spacedaily.com ^ | 07/08/05

[KevinDavis]

Marsward Ho!!!!!

[KevinDavis]

[Atlas Sneezed]

For a trillion dollars, what kind of results can one expect to get with manned versus unmanned?

Which would be better, a couple manned missions, possibly ending in tragedy, or 1000 unmanned missions (10% of which fail), each advancing the art further, based on earlier discoveries?

[RightWhale]

Jefferson said in his inaugural that the West would last for thousands upon thousands of generations of honest, moral, and hard-working farmers. Ignoring that the West as a frontier barely lasted for four generations, how long would a Space Frontier last if it were ever opened by establishing private property rights?

[RightWhale]

Land claims are predicated upon setting foot on the land in question. Landing some robots might not meet the requirements for recognition. The point is moot anyway while the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty remains in effect, but if national claim is ever to be asserted, landing some human beings would be essential.

[DoughtyOne]

Corporations get leases and private citizens get deeds.

[KevinDavis]

1. It is not going to cost a trillion dollars.

2. Manned missions can do a lot more than robots...

3. Also we have to leave this stikin rock...

[KevinDavis]

However, if the ship is launched from Costa Rica (a nation that did not sign the 1967 Outer Space Treaty), the point is moot.

[RightWhale]

I was kind of hoping for a crown charter. That is actually what set off the Boston Tea Party and the American Revolution, that a chartered stock-corporation had exclusive rights to carry tea, but a similar system also opened the West through building railroads, which in backlash to the Robber Barons led to both the Populist and the Progressive political movements.

[TheLion]

Bump!

[RightWhale]

You would have to whack a bunch of American-owned building lots to make room for that kind of spaceport. Would the gov't of Costa Rica be willing to chance exercising their eminent domain power for that and take the chance of invasion by the American military to protect American corporate interests?

[KevinDavis]

I don't think so.. Costa Rica is somewhat of a Libertarian Government....

[NicknamedBob]

"...how long would a Space Frontier last if it were ever opened by establishing private property rights?"

Extrapolating from the given example, between four hundred and a thousand years.

Primary factors are:
Limited access
Limited expansion capacity of emigrant population
Tremendous area of expansion -- Mars has twice the dry land area of Earth, plus nearly a hundred moons that could be settled elsewhere.

If one accepts that the Oort Cloud has potential, it could last several thousand years, and would lead naturally to interstellar colonization.

[RightWhale]

I think that is a fair estimate.

[RightWhale]

I wonder how much longer they will survive as an independent country. Guatemala, Honduras, notorious Nicaragua, Costa Rica all would be gone if they had anything of value.

[minus_273]

well that and i would LOVE to see old golry on mars!

[KevinDavis]

Me, I want to go to Alpha Centauri......

[NicknamedBob]

Early human migrants over the face of the Earth were limited by their ability to cross barriers, particularly water, and to learn how to use the resources of their new lands.

Later industrialized migration patterns depended on trade routes and access, and on the economical exploitation of recognized resources.

The migration through the solar system and beyond will be similar. Early encampments will depend on solar energy and limited fission power capabilities. Only the most promising locations, such as Mars and the moon, will be attractive.

As fusion power becomes available, fewer limits will be seen. The asteroids in all orbits, the moons of the outer planets, and even some rather intimidating planets themselves, such as Mercury and Uranus, will be settled.

The Oort cloud could well be swimming with decent real estate, requiring only cheap energy to wake it up.

The distances will be vast. Isolation will be reminiscent of the old west. But available energy from fusion will push the speed envelope faster and faster, until the nearest stars don't seem so far away after all.

[airborne]

If I said what I was thinking, I'd get flamed to ashes.

[Atlas Sneezed]

1. It is not going to cost a trillion dollars.

For any given price, unmanned will do more.

2. Manned missions can do a lot more than robots...

Can a few mission do more than hundreds of robotic missions? Computers have advanced since Apollo.

3. Also we have to leave this stikin rock...

I'm happy here, and don't want my earnings spent for the dreams of others.