Posted on 07/08/2005 7:13:25 PM PDT by NZerFromHK
My father owns a business in the CBD area here in Auckland. We have a shop selling Persian rugs next to us and the owner is Iranian himself. He is a moderate Muslim (yep, the MSM definition of it no less) and seems to be very nice to us and other nearby shops' owners. Dad had this conversation with the owner yesterday regarding the London bombing:
Dad: Did you read the papers this morning?
Owner: Yes, a big news event.
Dad: It's sad, isn't it?
Owner: Well, the British got it upon themselves. You know that Americans and British have killed many of us Muslims!
Dad: Do you really mean it? All the people died there are innocent deaths!
Owner: But they have killed many Muslims as a nation!
Dad:...
Owner: So, what do you think about it.
Dad: It's a complicated matter.
(And then he switched to another topic)
And he was fuming over dinner last night. He is a conservative like me, but because he doesn't want to get into argument due to traditional Chinese sense of politeness in conversation, he did not refute the shop owner's words in his face.
It serves as a wake up call for me. I have always imagined the moderate Muslims know the stakes, but now I have to reevaluate whether I could trust even many of the moderate Muslims in light of this conversation.
Cut them to the quick and all Muslims are just "moderate" as your friend. Simple tribalism, I think.
But don't forget The rantings of the Wahabbi mullahs are more doctrinally orthodox than the "moderates".
In one sentence: muzzies are raised to believe that infidels - that would be all non-muslims - are not quite human.
So...however they treat us, lie to us until they are strong enough to take over etc. is seen by muzzies (even the moderates) as virtuous. (I read today that there are suicide bomber baseball type cards circulating in Palestine)
You put their brain-washing madrassas schools on top of that base and the wonder is that you don't have even more raving lunatics, eager to die for islam.
As it is within their so called ummah, they consider it halal..
I heard some Arabs are asking for an apology. I humbly offer mine here:
I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).
I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.
I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Arabs.
I am sorry that Arabs have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.
I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools.
I am sorry that Yassir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and hijacked the Palestinian "cause."
I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.
I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA.
I am sorry that our own left wing elite and our media can't understand any of this.
I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.
I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.
I am sorry that those same bombers are seeking 72 virgins. I can't seem to find one here on Earth.
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think babies are a legitimate target.
I am sorry that our troops died to free more Arabs.
I am sorry they show so much restraint when their brothers in arms are killed. I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.
I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.
I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen "Daisy Cutters" on Fallujah. (Note: a "Daisy Cutter" is a 10,000 lb bomb, used to clear helicopter landing zones)
I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site".
I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.
I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, etc.
I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.
I am sorry the French are french?
America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty laundry for all the world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.
Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated? Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujans.
If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait. You have a better chance of finding those 72 virgins.
If you are "sorry" also, use this link...
http://www.catsprn.com/letter_of_apology.htm
Dad: Do you really mean it? All the people died there are innocent deaths!
Owner: But they have killed many Muslims as a nation!
It's amazing, isn't it? For all the hollow words from some/many in the Muslim community, when it comes down to it, they are like broken records. Those innocent Londoners had it coming because the west has killed Muslims. Disgusting. And a definite wake up call to us all, thanks for sharing.
It never ceases to amaze me that the libs here in the US (perhaps elsewhere, too?) sympathize with the terrorists, spout verbatim the kind of line this shopkeeper and so many others use, that we somehow had it coming, yet fail to realize that they, too, are targets and all their misplaced sympathies won't save them or get them special treatment.
The day after the 9/11 attacks, our newspaper printed a quote from a 14 year old American born Palestinian boy from north Jersey : "Now they know how we feel."
Now I know how they think. I look at even the most Westernized Muslims with suspicion. Fellow Muslims are their first loyalty.
During the cold war,we would not let in peaceful, moderate Communists who just wanted to make the world Communist in a peaceful moderate way.
How many of us are going to have to die before we stop letting them in?
Mrs VS
I hope law enforcement -- of Britain, I suppose -- examines the above picture, identifies the individuals, convicts them of treason, and then imprisons or deports them.
And, I hope their extended families go immediately on a no-immigrate, no-visit list asap.
It's worth noting, however, that the original post was about a conversation with a Persian, and the Persians are of course not Arabs.
Many faithful Muslims live in a mental space in which life and the world are strongly divided between two extremes - the Muslim community and infidels.
Now then, there may be Muslims who are doing something wrong - but, they are on the Muslim side of the divide, they are not infidels. To a faithful Muslim, they can and should be dealt with by Muslims but all infidels are beneath any Muslim and cannot presume to render "justice" on a Muslim. Any infidel who does must be rejected by a true Muslim, no matter what error the "offending" Muslim committed.
In this way, whatever evil Sadaam and the terrorists committed is irrelevant, the US and the Brits cannot be allowed to kill Muslims. They are infidels and they are beneath ANY Muslim, according to God's prophet.
You see, you are fighting a dominant mindset of the majority of people in an entire religion. In the long run, it matters little if they are in Al Queda or quietly selling rugs in the shop next door. They will be at war with you in some way.
Mabye we should send this "moderate" back to Iran so he can be reminded why he is in the United Kingdom.
Well, you might look at it this way: Radical Islam is the boots on the ground; most of the rest are sitting at home quietly(?) cheering 'em on. Not unlike us with the exception of conservatives who are generally more vocal about support for the troops.
All of Islam is an adversary, but most will not take up arms unless they see their guys winning. That's why terrorism(Islamic boots on the ground) has got to be defeated. Big!
FGS
Look at Chechnya, Phillipines, etc.
Thank you for pointing this out. I still see many people slamming their heads against the wall trying to figure out why nothing they say or do to get on the Muslim's side is working! It is somewhat comparable to being Gentiles in Old Testament bible times.
You're right. Also, Islam is a full meal deal lifestyle. The koran is an all encompassing political, religious and cultural way of life.
The "moderate muslim" is just biding his time until they have a majority, then it will be time to reveal the inner self.
Meaning, it's not ok in every case to cut an infidels head off.
Your friend, selling Persian rugs, is NOT a moderate. Chances are he has connections to the mad mullahs of Iran if he is trading in Iranian rugs.
lol! Not to change the subject, but that’s what dove me nuts with my Chinese room-mates.
Trust the moderate Muslims?
In a word,
NO!
--One--definition
--Two--assessment flaws and risks are too great even if the definition is a practical and accurate one of just who is dangerous.
--Three--Moderates change into radicals REAL EASILY, OFTEN AND QUICKLY.
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