Freemason Scots 'laid foundations of America'

Times Online (UK) ^ | July 4, 2005 | Kath Gourlay

[MeanWestTexan]

JULY 4 is a date firmly fixed in the consciousness of all Americans. Perhaps it should also be imprinted in the mind of Scots with a sense of history. Who was involved in the building of the White House? And who helped to start the American War of Independence? The surprising answer might be Scottish freemasons.

[nopardons]

Thank you so very much! You are too kind. *blush*

[Redleg Duke]

Either that or defrocked.

[KevinDavis]

Sorry...

[razorbak]

There is too much in Masonry that is incompatible with Scripture. And I have met too many Masons who value their Masonic lodge more than they do their church. Christ died for the church, according to Scripture, not these kinds of organizations. I have known many good men who were Masons, however, and I know they are involved in many good benevolent endeavors.

Masonry as a fraternal organization of men to have fellowship and do good works seems benign enough. But many have made it their religion.

But, I think it was very useful during times of social upheaval and persecution to have an organization that one could meet with in secret with a trusted group of men and discuss ideas that were considered dangerous or treasonous with the governmental powers that be.

[nopardons]

That's okay.

By doing as I suggested, you'll avoid a lot of confusion and nasty comments and having to explain yourself later on. :-)

[KevinDavis]

Understood. Some people around here tend to jump the gun..

[Matchett-PI]

Ditto that.

[Chode]

yup 8^)

[nopardons]

Yes and this time, I was the one who did so. LOL

[kellynla]

Below is the text of the entire letter from the Office of the Archdiocesan Tribunal, Archdiocese of Los Angeles, dated September 15, 2000, to the Masonic Service Bureau of North America:

"Thank you for your inquiry of September 11, 2000 directed to Cardinal Mahoney, on whose behalf I am replying. The question is "whether a practicing Catholic may join a Masonic Lodge."

Unfortunately, the matter is too complex for a straightforward "yes" or "no" answer. But at least for Catholics in the United States, I believe the answer is "probably yes." Permit me to explain this qualified response.

Your letter states that a member's "allegiance to one God is all we require." To the extent that this is an accurate statement of the organization's beliefs and teachings, and that its activities are humanitarian and charitable in nature, there is no reason to prevent a practicing Catholic from joining.

Past history, of course, has muddied the waters because earlier church law (prior to November 27, 1983) specifically named Masonic groups as a forbidden society (canon 2335, 1917 Code). The dialogues between Catholic and Masonic representatives in the years since the Second Vatican Council were generally very positive and yet did not resolve questions or concerns raised in certain parts of the world. As a result, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome issued a statement one day before the new Code of Canon Law took effect (November 26, 1983), in which it held that since Masonic principles were still contrary to the teachings of the Church, Catholics would commit a grave sin in belonging to Masonic associations and so could not receive Holy Communion.

Because this declaration has not been superseded by any further official statements, the question keeps recurring about its interpretation and application. There is no agreement, however, among the experts in church law who have considered the matter. Consequently one can only judge the individual circumstances in light of the principles that clearly do apply. These principles are set forth in canons 1374 and 1364 of the 1983 Code, which forbid a Catholic from joining "an association which plots against the Church" and impose penalties for heresy under certain conditions. If "a particular Masonic lodge truly promoted heretical teaching or conspired against the interests of the Church" (Ronny E. Jenkins, "The Evolution of the Church's Prohibition Against Catholic Membership in Freemasonry," The Jurist, 56 (1996), pg 735,) then a Catholic would be bound to avoid membership. The reason, then, I answer 'probably yes' is because I am unaware of any ideology or practice by the local lodges that challenges or subverts the doctrine and interests of the Catholic Church. In the previous paragraph, I have cited the article which best presents the current state of the question. The 1974 newspaper clipping that you enclosed with your letter probably refers to a letter written by Cardinal Seper, then in charge of the same doctrinal congregation mentioned above, which was addressed to certain bishops. In this letter one can see the movement at that time from a blanket prohibition to the application of a case-by-case judgment whether a group did in fact conspire against the Church. The history of the development of the Church's current law suggests that this case-by-case approach is what canon 1374 on forbidden associations intends.

Please forgive this lengthy reply, but a shorter one would not do justice to those inquirers who are aware that the matter is still controversial. I thank you for giving me the opportunity to learn more about it myself, and I close by asking God's blessing on your well-known endeavors to relieve human suffering and assist the needy."

Rev. Thomas C. Anslow, C.M., J.C.L. Judicial Vicar




You calling anyone slanderous is LAUGHABLE after you deleted the most important point in the letter that "Catholics would commit a grave sin in belonging to Masonic associations and so could not receive Holy Communion."

Don't waste any more of my time with your deception!

[kellynla]

hey, genius, all I have done is quote Catholic Canon Law, now if you have a problem with that, take it to the Pope!

I reeeeely couldn't care less who belongs, what they believe and those secret hand shakes et al...

[kellynla]

"The Master of the Lodge in which I entered Freemasonry was a Roman Catholic in good standing with his church."

yea right...
and I've got some swamp land in Florida for sale...

[PresbyRev]

Sorry - truth is truth. It may conflict with your 'reality' but the facts stand on their own. My sympathies.

[nopardons]

Being a Methodist, yes, I have a problem with the Pope...any Pope; however, I also have many friends, both on line and in real life, who are Catholics and I have nothing whatsoever against Catholics. Religion is a private/personal thing. OTOH, Anti-Mason tinfoil wearing, lies spewing, CCPers of spurious web sites....well, that's another thing entirely.

This thread's topic had less than nothing whatsoever to do with Catholics, Catholic Canon Law, nor the Pope and it doesn't take a genius to figure that out, nor your perverse agenda.

And since you have vociferously claimed that you don't care who belongs to what, then get off this thread; you've added only flames to it!

[investigateworld]

Hey, more fun than a Wal-mart fight!

[kellynla]

"CCPers of spurious web sites"

what spurious web sites?

"This thread's topic had less than nothing whatsoever to do with Catholics?" wrong again, genius, a FReeper asked if a Catholic could join the Masons and I posted the link to the Catholic website which answered his/her question.

"perverse agenda?" you're the one who doesn't like the Pope.
And I couldn't care less about the Masons, Freemasons or any other mason be it a jar or not!
you clowns can go around with your secret handshake till your arm falls off for all I care! LMAO

[kellynla]

"truth is truth. It may conflict with your 'reality' but the facts stand on their own"

yea, well let me clue you into some FACTS, Padre!

your secret handshaking buddy who claims to be in "good standing" with the Catholic Church is "full of it"

Catholic Canon Law forbids membership in the Freemasons.
Now that is FACT!


Class dismissed.

[nopardons]

The anti-Masonic sites, than a few here have CCPed garbage from.

Soooooooooooo...you don't care about Masons, Freemasonry, or anything connected with the topic, which is why you came onto a thread about Masons and slammed FreeMasonry,insulted Masons, called names, and are whinging and whining all over the place? You're as transparent as a freshly cleaned pane of glass and not nearly as useful.

And you would NEVER have known what any poster had asked, had you mot come barreling onto a thread, the topic of which you claim to have no interest in.

Catholics can join the Masons, if the want to. The Masons don't discriminate against people. All they demand, is that people who want to join are of good character and believe in GOD.

The Catholic Church, OTOH, had taken both sides of the argument; not having a problem with Catholics becoming Masons, having problems with that, and apparently, not having a problem with it, yet again.

And now that you haves poked your nose into this thread, gotten your agenda out, it really is long past time that you departed from it.

[Rytwyng]

nopardons: You are seriously ill informed. There is nothing occultish about FreeMasonry.

Well... I'd sure love to be wrong about that. 'Cause many a patriot that I admire, was a Mason. Also, so was one of the finest men I ever worked for.

It wouldn't be the first time Christians were misinformed about something. But, with so many rituals secret, how could I find out for sure without actually joining myself? My Dad's Dad's Dad was a Mason (Potter Lodge Philadelphia) but he's long gone so I can't ask him.

BTW, when I was doing genealogy I contacted 2 organizations in Philadelphia: the Masons and the old Methodist church that my Dad's family belonged to. The Masons still had records of my greatgrandfather, even though it was over 100 years earlier, and their archivist prepared a complete report of all the info they had on him, his family, and the date and location of his funeral (with Masonic honors).

I never heard from the Methodist church.

[Clemenza]

Masonry is "frowned upon" by the Catholic Church, largely a legacy of the anticlerical French Revolution (who's leadership was largely Masonic). Nevertheless, you will NOT be excommunicated if you are a Mason. Paul VI called a truce with the Masons.