Why Women Must Change Too if we are to Rescue Marriage

The Financial Times ^ | July 5, 2005 | Richard Tomkins

[Sirloin]

Just remember her's itches too.

Oh I know my wifes itches - and I'm very happy to scratch those itches for her!

My friends have the same view - they'd do anything they were asked of by their wives, but the sentiment isn't reciprocated. They have told me several times I'm lucky to have a woman who isn't ho-hum in the bedroom.

[papertyger]

Males cant win if they dont try.

So tell me how women were able to turn the tables on men when they had little formal education, and more domestic career aspirations?

[Fred Hayek]

BTW Naziism (National Socialism) is a LEFT view.

[HitmanLV]

A lot of women think that way, no question.

[najida]

Good for you! :)

Yeah, its funny to me the number of couples who seem to have found the 'ho hum' partner of someone else ;)

[HitmanLV]

I just report what i hear. Many prostitutes, in fact, don't actually have intercourse with their johns. Often it's one or two tasks that the men want, and the rest is therapy.

Sounds kooky but word on the street is that it's true.

[brownsfan]

"most people are in favor of free trade. That large pool of males who left high school and got good high paying jobs with lots of beneifits and pensions and medical insurance, etc, that enabled them to support a non-working wife and 3 kids doesnt exist anymore. "

It's a by-product of free trade, one the free traders don't want to acknowledge. Aside from the drop outs. There are males who just aren't suited for college. Men who are bright, good, decent people who just aren't suited for college. They used to get factory jobs, became good husbands, and raised kids who became good decent doctors, lawyers, and engineers.
The free traders would tell you those folks need to hustle and start their own business. Otherwise, they have no right to reproduce.
You are feeling the effects of this.
I wonder how many free traders had factory worker parents?

[chris1]

Exactly. My friends and I had a conversation about this, and were overheard by our significant others, unknowingly by us, and were nearly crucified.

They could not handle the truth. I told mine to simply read Dr. Laura's book about men and that would answer everything.

[Rytwyng]

I dont know why the daughters are so motivated and entering professions, college, and their own businesses at record levels, and the sons are not apparently doing anything

I don't know why women work so hard, either. Men work for women. If modern women don't want men anymore, the motivation to succeed is precisely zero.

Sadly, since women (but not men) have a genetic inclination to marry "up", status-wise, and our society considers a college degree a mark of status, that means that millions of these young college-"educated" women will NEVER find a man that meets their "standards". I've also known ultra-successful career types who kept meeting men who ought to have been good matches, yet, somehow they just "couldn't" find any of these decent middleclass men attractive. They were holding out for men of their own "class", but those men are all dating 20 year old models. Oops.

[Recovering Hermit]

I suppose we must blame the rise of selfish individualism.

Agreed...and my daughters are the ones who are paying the price.

[HitmanLV]

re: the women working at my law firms.

It's not an younger set issue. The women I know who have that hangup ranged in ages from early 20s to late 50s. Also don't forget that a lot of very educated men simply reject women with very time-intensive careers (just as many women reject men who work 3000+ hours a year).

I took extreme steps to get out of that work schedule and start my own business. After a couple of years of sacrifice, I now work out of home and these days work only about 4 hours a day. I do planned travel for my work a few weekends out of the year where I do my seminars.

The tought of dating a big firm law associate who needs to work 6 or 7 days a week, 3000 hour a year, and have vacations and planned events suddenly canceled on some partner's whim (because she doesn't have the stones to stand up to them) is unappealing to me.

Draw whatever conclusions you like, but plenty of very successful men have no interest in a relationship with a woman who works too much. We get a lot of the downside of that dynamic (hear all the crap she is too cowardly to tell her bosses and coworkers) while enjoying less of the upside.

Since we have the choice (and we do), we choose to reject that. It's a very sensible and defendable approach.

[HitmanLV]

Scatching your lady's itches is a lot of fun. ;-)

[NationalistVisionary]

I can’t believe (actually I can) that on a topic such as this, with the people involved in the conversation, we all resort to the blame game.
“It’s all because of women!”
“No! It’s all because of men!”
You all can sit back and get mad at each other and further the detriment to the institution of marriage by bad mouthing the opposite sex, but I will not. Those with the social agenda to end marriage are also trying to make the behaviors that are contributing to the downfall of marriage acceptable. (infidelity, dishonesty, selfishness, etc.) I’m sure they are sitting back laughing when they can turn those such as Freepers on their own. It is not the fault of men or women solely. There are cases where it has been the fault of the man or woman but is not always the fault of one sex or the other all the time. If you believe that it is, then you have been truly brainwashed (or perhaps it is just a defense mechanism for your own mistakes). The infighting has to stop if we are save the institution of marriage, or any other sacred establishment that is endangered. We have everything to lose, they have everything to win, why help them to defeat us?

[HitmanLV]

My friends have the same view - they'd do anything they were asked of by their wives, but the sentiment isn't reciprocated.

This is very true in many cases. There is a pervasive mindset out there that a woman's needs are largely valid, while a man's needs are a bit excessive (and sometimes even suspect). While I don't doubt there is at least some truth to that (as far as sex, us guys can be very demanding - I know I am), it's overstated to the point of not being very helpful to the relationships between the sexes.

[Nowhere Man]

It's a by-product of free trade, one the free traders don't want to acknowledge. Aside from the drop outs. There are males who just aren't suited for college. Men who are bright, good, decent people who just aren't suited for college. They used to get factory jobs, became good husbands, and raised kids who became good decent doctors, lawyers, and engineers.
The free traders would tell you those folks need to hustle and start their own business. Otherwise, they have no right to reproduce.
You are feeling the effects of this.
I wonder how many free traders had factory worker parents?

Bingo, that's another par of this. I get more upset at the free traders than I even do with liberals (although it is plenty there too), but I look at it this way, at least most who have a liberal agenda are honest and upfront about it. It's better to get shot in the front than the back. Being a Pittsburgher (yes I'm a Steeler's fan B-D) and coming from working class roots, I don't deny my economic centrist views come from that but yeah, I'd like to do a study on free-trade vs. fair-trade on the basis of current jobs and family background.

[Nowhere Man]

Agreed...and my daughters are the ones who are paying the price.

We ALL pay the price.

[wolfman]

Th problem with marriage? Slidden morality. Money is the god to almost everyone these days, whether they realize it or not. Was marriage begun as an economic union? No. Marriage was meant as a 3 way spiritual agreement between a man, a woman and God. God promised to meet our needs if we abide in Him. God's precepts mean nothing to people any more. We are not a moral people any more, so freedom, marriage or any other thing relying on accountability, faith or sacrifice are impossible. We have also given an unholy beurocracy control of divorce and child custody making a slave of one of the divorcees, usually the man.

[papertyger]

My friends have the same view - they'd do anything they were asked of by their wives, but the sentiment isn't reciprocated. They have told me several times I'm lucky to have a woman who isn't ho-hum in the bedroom.

By in large, that's pretty much the only need a husband can't have satisfied ethically by contracting it out, yet the majority of women are so self-absorbed they can't even get that right... then they wonder why their husbands are so passive!

[najida]

You're very right. It isn't like 'our team' is better than 'their team' between the genders.

These threads are fun to watch because you do see what rattles some people's cages, what they want, what their fears are, how they see the world and the opposite sex. It's a learning experience. The bitterness in some breaks my heart.

Bottom line, we can't exist without each other (OK, one generation can) but then we're kaput. We truly do need to learn to get along ;)(Oh is that gonna get me ragged!)

[Sirloin]

...while a man's needs are a bit excessive (and sometimes even suspect). While I don't doubt there is at least some truth to that ...

I've found the analogy that seems to work best with women is that a man's sex drive is like being hungry almost all the time. If by marrying a woman I'm agreeing to be fed only by her then she needs to live up to her end of the bargain and feed me when I'm hungry!