Posted on 07/04/2005 6:53:08 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher
Clergy and laity show signs of schism over homosexuality, miracles and the Almighty
HUNDREDS of Church of England clergy doubt the existence of God and fewer than two thirds believe in miracles, a study out today says.
The report, published on the eve of the General Synod, refers to “very fragile faultlines along which the Church of England could be torn apart”. Congregations are much more conservative than most of the comparatively liberal clergy preaching to them.
The report says that if committed Anglicans are clear about one thing it is the existence of God: 97 per cent have no hesitation in affirming His existence. Yet, it continues, one in 33 clerics doubts the existence of God. If reflected throughout the Church’s 9,000 clergy the finding would mean that nearly 300 Church of England clergy are uncertain that God exists.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
I once worked for a nun who was Director of Mission Effectiveness (the ethics department) of a group of hospitals run by nuns. She chaired meetings where decisions were made regarding the ethical rules of the chain of hospitals. This woman was the meanest boss I ever had. In a discussion one day she told me that she "did not believe in the power of prayer". I would have been fired on the spot if I had asked her the burning question "Then why did you become a nun?" I'll never know that answer. I'm just glad to know that she is too old to be in charge of anything any more.
Once again, a clarification for the church that I was raised in - the Church of Christ is the same as it always was. Instrumental music is not on the menu. Dancing is not on the menu. Alcohol is not on the menu. Sodomy is DEFINITELY not on the menu.
Good clarification
http://www.ucc.org/aboutus/whatis.htm
In essentials unity, in non-essentials diversity, in all things charity. The unity that we seek requires neither an uncritical acceptance of any point of view, nor rigid formulation of doctrine. It does require mutual understanding and agreement as to which aspects of the Christian faith and life are essential.
Sounds fuzzy enough to me to accept any interpretation
let's see now...after l,600 years of all Christians prfessing the same beliefs, your church of "what's happening now" springs up and you are criticizing another, equally misdirected bunch of protestant "believers". When all Christians return to the mother church of Christianity, Catholocism, all will be well with Jesus, the founder of HIS CATHOLIC CHURCH.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, you're funny.
Bizarre. In light of the recent book discussions, the reigning darkness continues to spread its visibly disordered weirdness. How can someone claim to be a Christian clergyman and NOT believe in God? Anyone have an explanation for this bizarre liberal oddity? Is this what Billy Graham meant when he suggested in unsober silliness that Bill Clinton ought to become an evangelist?
gotta ping this one out later.
Who is surprised about this?
How could all these pedophile priests do what they do, if they believed in God?
What does it mean when the clergy are sodomising the children?
Inverted morality.
BTW, I know where the answer is, (in the King James, this is Hossea, I use the original English one- Douay Rheims- Osee):
6 My people have been silent, because they had no knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will reject thee, that thou shalt not do the office of priesthood to me: and thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children.
7 According to the multitude of them so have they sinned against me: I will change their glory into shame.
8 They shall eat the sins of my people, and shall lift up their souls to their iniquity.
9 And there shall be like people like priest: and I will visit their ways upon them, and I will repay them their devices.
10 And they shall eat and shall not be filled: they have committed fornication, and have not ceased: because they have forsaken the Lord in not observing his law.
11 Fornication, and wine, and drunkenness take away the understanding.
12 My people have consulted their stocks, and their staff hath declared unto them: for the spirit of fornication hath deceived them, and they have committed fornication against their God.
13 They offered sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burnt incense upon the hills: under the oak, and the poplar, and the turpentine tree, because the shadow thereof was good: therefore shall your daughters commit fornication, and your spouses shall be adulteresses.
14 I will not visit upon your daughters when they shell commit fornication, and upon your spouses when they shall commit adultery: because themselves conversed with harlots, and offered sacrifice with the effeminate, and the people that doth not understand shall be beaten.
15 If thou play the harlot, O Israel, at least let not Juda offend: and go ye not into Galgal, and come not up into Bethaven, and do not swear: The Lord liveth.
16 For Israel hath gone astray like a wanton heifer: now will the Lord feed them, as a lamb in a spacious place.
17 Ephraim is a partaker with idols, let him alone.
18 Their banquet is separated, they have gone astray by fornication: they that should have protected them have loved to bring shame upon them.
19 The wind hath bound them up in its wings, and they shall be confounded because of their sacrifices.
Chapter 5
1 Hear ye this, O priests, and hearken, O ye house of Israel, and give ear, O house of the king: for there is a judgment against you, because you have been a snare to them whom you should have watched over, and a net spread upon Thabor.
2 And you have turned aside victims into the depth: and I am, the teacher of them all.
3 I know Ephraim, and Israel is not hid from me: for now Ephraim hath committed fornication, Israel is defiled.
4 They will not set their thoughts to return to their God: for the spirit of fornication is in the midst of them, and they have not known the Lord.
5 And the pride of Israel shall answer in his face: and Israel and Ephraim shall fall in their iniquity, Juda also shall fall with them.
6 With their flocks, and with their herds, they shall go to seek the Lord, and shall not find him: he is withdrawn from them.
7 They have transgressed against the Lord, for they have begotten children that are strangers: now shall a month devour them with their portions.
8 Blow ye the cornet in Gabaa, the trumpet in Rama: howl ye in Bethaven, behind thy back, O Benjamin.
9 Ephraim shall be in desolation in the day of rebuke: among the tribes of Israel I have shewn that which shall surely be.
10 The princes of Juda are become as they that take up the bound: I will pour out my wrath upon them like water.
11 Ephraim is under oppression, and broken in judgment: because he began to go after filthiness.
12 And I will be like a moth to Ephraim: and like rottenness to the house of Juda.
13 And Ephraim saw his sickness, and Juda his band: and Ephraim went to the Assyrian, and sent to the avenging king: and he shall not be able to heal you, neither shall he be able to take off the band from you.
14 For I will be like a lioness to Ephraim, and like a lion's whelp to the house of Juda: I, I will catch, and go: I will take away, and there is none that can rescue.
15 I will go and return to my place: until you are consumed, and seek my face.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
I'm not surprised at all. I'm just surprised they openly admit it.
Ineed to get that version of the Bible, all I've ever read is KJ and NIV, which I do not like.
Actually, probably a lot of these clergy believe in "God"; subjectively, that is.
I support 100% execution for all child molesters. No opportunities for "second offenses".
Power. That's the attraction to the clergy for those that don't have a servant heart for God.
Their living.
Bingo. Methinks the Great Falling-Away is in full swing. The absurdity of a clergyman who doesn't believe in God is almost beyond comprehension, but we're gonna see things far more ludicrous as time goes on.
I have NO desire to start a Rapture debate, so I hope no one will launch one over my comments; instead, focus on the staggering gullibility and blindness of man: I do believe in a coming Rapture, and to be honest, for many years I had trouble seeing how the aftermath could possibly unfold as predicted. My thinking was that when a billion or so people disappear, how could EVERYONE left behind not instantly believe? It was unfathomable to me that such an event could occur and billions more could still refuse to see the truth. Now, however, I have no problem believing it. I can easily envision the talking-head shows with their "experts" lined up to explain how we all disappeared via some perfectly natural phenomenon, and people gobbling it up. People prove each and every day that they will willingly believe any absurdity thrown their way by evil, and shun the most obvious truths put forth by God. Even if you don't believe in a coming Rapture, that gullibility and blindness is still just as stunning.
MM
"Love is patient. Love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud." FReegards, big guy...
It's been going on for longer than that in Britain. I believe many clergy in the Church of England dabbled in Communisim in the 20's and 30's, so that when society was so severely challenged during the second World War, they no longer had any spiritual sustenance to offer people. I believe that's why there are so many in England who no longer believe or bother to attend Church even if they DO believe. They saw their leaders completely lose faith, and they followed suit.
"If these clowns don't believe in God, what exactly do they believe in?"
As a lay Bible teacher in a Southern Baptist church, I have spent time talking to ministers--it's difficult for me to say the word--who say they do not believe in God.
Because they lack spiritual understanding--in the Biblical sense of "spiritual"--they have a deadness in their souls that I do not understand.
Perhaps a simple story will demonstrate the difference between someone who has a personal relationship through Jesus Christ to God, and someone who does not.
When I was in college, I was having a breakfast of milk in donuts in the fourth-floor cafeteria in the student union of Oklahoma State University. A man was speaking with one of the kitchen helpers, an African-American who held a part-time ministerial position in a local church. The man stated that he was going into the ministry. The part-time minister, in the course of the conversation, asked the other if the Lord had called him into the ministry. The man said that he had considered a number of options for his life and, because he liked to speak in public, read and discuss philosophy, and help people, that, he felt, was the best option for him. The minister said again, "But did the Lord call you into the ministry?"
The man said again that his qualifications were unique, and he had a lot to offer people, that congregations ought to be glad to have a person such as himself in the pulpit. The minister kept repeating the question in a number of different ways. Finally, the man, getting frustrated, said, "You know, I really don't think that it's a qualification for God to call someone into the ministry--in fact,I don't really believe in God at all."
The minister said it very eloquently: "If you don't believe in God, then how will you minister to the souls of people, to get a message into their spirits?"
The man had absolutely no idea what the minister was talking about, and he gave up the conversation.
The man was spiritually dead. He had nothing except philosophy to pass on to people--not the Word of God nor even the concept of God. The man was totally empty. That's what it's like to have a minister who does not believe in God. A total vacuuum filled by nothing.
I suppose it would be patronizing to say that I felt sorry for the guy and encouraged by the faith of the minister. But that's really how it was.
Anglo-Atheist Central Starship Command (Cambridge?) encounters a problem as the hidden dangers of Tholian worship rear ther ugly head.
Chekhov:"What'll we do, Captain? The Tholian has seized control of our minds!!!"
I believe the infiltration of marxists in the church began in the 40's.
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