Clergy who don't believe in God

The London Times ^ | 5 July 2005 | Ruth Gledhill

[Aussie Dasher]

Clergy and laity show signs of schism over homosexuality, miracles and the Almighty

HUNDREDS of Church of England clergy doubt the existence of God and fewer than two thirds believe in miracles, a study out today says.

The report, published on the eve of the General Synod, refers to “very fragile faultlines along which the Church of England could be torn apart”. Congregations are much more conservative than most of the comparatively liberal clergy preaching to them.

The report says that if committed Anglicans are clear about one thing it is the existence of God: 97 per cent have no hesitation in affirming His existence. Yet, it continues, one in 33 clerics doubts the existence of God. If reflected throughout the Church’s 9,000 clergy the finding would mean that nearly 300 Church of England clergy are uncertain that God exists.

[Let's Roll]

You know they are libs - trying to have it both ways as usual.

Agnostics if not out and out atheists but still get paid by the church.

[quadrant]

What congregations? The Anglican Church has atrophied to the point where it it an oxymoron to apply the term congregations to those who attend regular church services.

[redgolum]

The biggest trick to "pegging" the Anti Christ (instead of an antichrist) is that we probably won't have a clear idea of who he (she perhaps?) is until it is all done but the shouting.

And I have a bad feeling the majority in the US will merrily march right along.

[Dad yer funny]

yup , Rector Rectum Wrecker ,.. its so obvious these guys found a cushy job , getting "up close & personal" while being enabled to do things in private,secretly

[redgolum]

With what I have heard from a friend who left seminary BECAUSE he still believed in God, I think that many of these guys just followed their professors teachings.

[redgolum]

When the Shepperd's become wolves, where do the sheep turn to for protection?

[redgolum]

Miracles still happen, but most don't notice. We as a society don't like miracles.

Come to think of it, many of the famous miracles where not very popular until long after the event. Those who were contemporary, didn't want to see it.

[NathanR]

Can you even be a member of the clergy if you don't believe in God? Shouldn't that be met with automatic excommunication?

Probably not.

In the US, Divinity Schools opened their doors to anyone who applied in 1968, when the US Govt stopped issuing 2S Defferances to grad students, unless they were in Divinity School. Such things like believing in God, were optional.

When they graduated many stayed and worked their way up the heirarchies.

[trebb]

And I have a bad feeling the majority in the US will merrily march right along.

You are most likely right, but don't despair - while it is our job to resist evil with all our might, God has ordained that the endtimes will come and the world will suffer greatly on the way out. There's nothing we can do to stop it, but we can stand firm against it until God decides our job is done.

God Bless

[superdad]

A good example is Harry Cook, an Episcopal minister from Michigan, who believes The death, birth and miracle narratives about Jesus of Nazareth are almost certainly confections that emerged from the collective imagination of late first-century C.E. communities of Jews and Gentiles. from The Passion will prove a fiction like the Gospels

[Grampa Dave]

I became aware of this incredible situation about 15 years ago.

Our bishop asked our church to hire a Curate. I was senior warden and a group of us went to the local seminary to interview a group that was finishing their training.

I could not believe some of the dark side trash that appeared for the interview. They ranged from Hostile Lesbians to sinister homosexuals. A common thread was their hostility towards the core of our religion.

I asked a couple of them point blank if they believed in God, the Birth of Jesus, the death and resurrection of Jesus. One had the honesty to say she didn't. Two tried to play games with me with their answers.

After we returned home, we told the bishop that if he wanted us to hire a curate, he had better tell the seminary to only send us Christians not infidels. We interviewed a smaller group a few weeks later, and we hired a great young Christian man with a Christain wife. He became a priest at our church and was hired by another church, and he has become an excellent priest.

Flash forward, 12 years, and our parish decided to hire a Curate to groom him to be an asst. priest. I wasn't on the search committee this time, however, the senior warden and I were very good friends as well as most of the search committee. The SW told the members of the search committee to ask me what our criteria was when we hired our last Curate.

Several asked me and I told them to make sure the candidate
believed in God, the Birth of Jesus, the death and resurrection of Jesus. Most of them looked at me like I had lost my mind. After their first interview session, most came back to me and asked, "How did you know what was happening re the Godless and amoral Theology students?"

I told them what had happened over a decade ago. They woke up and hired a real Christian man married to a real Christian woman. Both are assets to our church.

[little jeremiah]

Thank you very much. I'm going to have to get one.

[Grampa Dave]

"In the US, Divinity Schools opened their doors to anyone who applied in 1968, when the US Govt stopped issuing 2S Defferances to grad students, unless they were in Divinity School. Such things like believing in God, were optional.

"When they graduated many stayed and worked their way up the heirarchies."

Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware of thia Draft Deferrence option/situation.

This would have been an excellent vehicle for the unbeliever's to come in and eventually end up in control of seminaries or to become senior priests and bishops across America.

[sionnsar]

Good for you!

[Grampa Dave]

Our church and other churches would not be suffering from the problems we are in today if two decades ago all bishops, priests, curates and theology students had to proclaim: "They believed in God, the Birth of Jesus, the death and resurrection of Jesus."

[little jeremiah]

Moral Absolutes Ping.

Okay, let's grind out some pings! Ah, I long for the days when FR could post whole articles instead of just little excerpts. If I ever get DSL out here in the boonies, I'll be able to take the time to click the link and read the whole article each and every time. Until that day, I only hope that someone down the thread posts a bit more of it.

That said, of course a lot of clergy/ministers don't believe in God. If they did, they woudn't act/talk the way they do.

Unless, as I mentioned up the thread, their belief in God is purely subjective.

Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.

[pepperhead]

If these clowns don't believe in God, what exactly do they believe in?

They wouldn't be the first to believe in the money people put in the collection plate.

[Aussie Dasher]

Not believing in God doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person, but one who is charged with the duties of a minister of religion is having a lend of us all if he - or she - doesn't believe.

[atlanta67]

why is this unbelievable??

Europe is sick, twisted and dying!!

Europe is self loathing. Makes perfect sense that there are Anglican Clergy that dont believe in God. Frankly I am surprised it is only 3%. I would have guessed 25%.

Decline has causes, one is lack of faith in one's own religion and culture. Where do you think this decline is coming from? It is coming from the very people who are suppose to be promoting their own culture and religion

There is decline in Europe, no one dobuts that, yet we are surprised when we find the causes of that decline.

[InterestedQuestioner]

Actually, I'm a Lutheran. If you can read the scriptures in your own language, then you can thank my church, not yours.

That's a good one, I admire your zing. To be truthful, however, scriptures were written in the vernacular long before the Doctor Martin Luther's day, and that included English, well, older versions of English, at any rate. We do, however, thank Dr. Martin Luther for a very lively discussion about justification.