Posted on 07/01/2005 9:55:00 AM PDT by Rhadaghast
May 11, 2005 Host: Vic Eliason Topic: False Doctrine Guest: David DiCanio Description: Dr. David DiCanio is Pastor of Columbine Free Presbyterian Church in Columbine, Colorado, and is involved in Christian Media, which produces television-style documentaries on religious trends and movements. Vic Eliason presents two audio cuts. One features Robert Schuller being interviewed by Dr. David DiCanio after giving a keynote address at the 2004 National Association of Evangelicals meeting. The other cut features Robert Schuller interviewing Billy Graham. The two discuss their views concerning how people are saved.
Dr. DiCanio interacts with callers to discuss the opinions expressed by Schuller and Graham and the current move of some leaders in Christianity to preach a gospel that teaches salvation apart from a conscious, biblical awareness of Christ as the only way to God.
Contact Info: info@thechristianmedia.com www.thechristianmedia.com
Rare recordings of great preachers of the past are posted by Dr. DiCanio's church at
http://www.sermonaudio.com/columbine Listen: RealAudio Windows Media
So you are actually saying *with certainty* that people who died without ever hearing the gospel message are in hell?
On what or whose authority is that claim based?
BTW, I am a Christian. Whatever "Christian doctrine" you are referring to could be anything you and I happen to disagree on.
"The bible says that those under the age of reasoning will be saved regardless."
That would be interesting. Where does it say that?
Right on!
We've seen this quite a bit lately with elderly public figures, suddenly saying things that are quite radical and ridiculous too. Mandela, Cronkite, Carter, now Rev. Graham. They should retire and not be allowed to speak, let their ealier lives be their legacy. We hear nothing from the great Charlton Heston, his family has kept him in seclusion. I do believe the ones I mentioned have some sort of dementia.
The existence of God is clearly seen by looking at what He has created.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. NOT by an inner feeling of the "essence" of God within.
But I think Rev Graham is contemplating that those who see/find God through what he's created and realize that God is not within can be saved.
You dont think thats what the Rev is meaing though when you listen? I'll have to relisten.
No, that certainly can't be said...at all. Just hearing is a whole lot different than the response procured from hearing the Gospel. But I try to stay out of those condemning people to hell issues. Only God knows...and only God will judge that. All I can do is try to continually live out my life...in action, speech, and attiude, in a way pleasing to God.
They aren't Saved. They never heard the Gospel. You are simply relying on chance at that point.
Me either, especially since they are child-like, as we are told to be. Regardless of our fretting, though, He has this angle all figured out already, and always has.
I consider this "how many angles can dance on the head of a pin" territory. It's not important for us to know right now. Our charge is the Great Commission to compel by argument the conversion of those who can make the choice.
Indeed, and well stated.
I'd like to add to my earlier comment that based on the Bible, I believe anyone who *has* heard the gospel of Jesus Christ and ultimately rejects it (and Him), will not receive salvation.
It's not that if you don't hear you will be saved, it's that those who have not heard and yet recognize the law written in their heart may have Christ reveal himself to them.
As an analogy:
There is a low meadow with 1,000 sheep grazing by a river. During a dark night, a storm rises up and the field starts to flood. There is a narrow path up to a higher spot, but in the darkness and confusion, the sheep can't find it. One or two might if they are close enough and can stumble their way up in the darkness, but the rest will perish.
Now if a shepard was to appear with a lamp and show them the path and lead them, many more will be saved.
Those who have not had the opportunity to hear the Gospel are living in the low meadow with the river rising. Some might find the right path, but most will perish. A Missionary is the shepard sent with the light. More will be saved than before when he arrives. But to say that the one or two who stumble across the path cannot be saved is to claim that God is not sovereign and cannot bring salvation to whom he will.
>>>That would be interesting. Where does it say that?>>>
I think the age is 12 or so, but no I don't have the exact scripture. Now are you going to seize the opportunity to be a jerk and state how incredibly wrong I am? Are you are a Christian wishing to educate me, or a non-Christian wishing to belittle me?
Okay, so are you saying *with certainty* that aborted babies are in hell right now?
My pleasure.
See John 1: "He was in the begining with God"
Also John 10: "Before Abramham was, I AM"
Thank you for your honesty. We will have to disagree here.
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