Posted on 06/29/2005 10:52:36 AM PDT by StarfireIV
Following up on a thread about the deteriorating condition of the USS Arizona posted earlier this month, I borrowed a copy of the now out-of-print book "Descent Into Darkness" from the local library. The book was referenced at least twice in the thread and is one I would recommend not only for its historical value, but also because of something I found therein which is relevant to the discussion of Iraq and the current war on terror.
The author speaks of two aerial bombs discovered during salvage operations on the Arizona which were converted coastal defence artillery shells. These shells were actually American made and had been sold to the Japanese as scrap iron years earlier. In Chapter IV under the heading "Ben finds a bomb", the author describes the projectile in this fashion; "It was a fifteen inch shell that at one time had been used by old U.S. coastal guns, long since obsolete. The U.S. imprint was clearly visible stamped into the base of the shell. Stabilizing fins had been welded into its base in order to give it the charachteristics of a spiraling bomb."
It would seem that history indeed has a way of repeating itself. In our efforts to sell scrap iron to the Japanese, we inadvertently armed them with munitions which would later be used against us. I doubt that this would have any influence on the thought patterns of those who desperately cling to unsubstantiated slogans like "We armed Saddam" and "Bin Laden was a known CIA operative", but for the rest of us it should serve as a reminder that we are not blessed with the benefit of hindsight especially in times of war.
It's Prescott Bush's fault!
Didn't I see a Freepers Foxhole about this?
I call BS on this one. You'll need better sources and more of them.
It's well established that the Japanese did convert artillery shells into armor piercing bombs. I don't know about the shells' origins.
Oh, of course; the bombs used by the level bombers were converted AP shells.
The whole idea that the shell that struck and exploded the Arizona was still identifiable strikes me as rather ludicrous.
We are selling lots of scrap to the Chinese now. Also ironic is that the Japanese used the denial of oil from Dutch Indonesia as a causus belli. Now the Chinese are trying to buy Unocal but we may cut them off.
Plus de change plus c'est la meme chose.
Sorry, the claim is an obvious crock.
I can't find any evidence of 15" US Coast defense guns other than the (ancient smoothbore) Rodman guns of the late 1800s. The shell for these was only 300-400 lbs; what the Kates carried weighed 800 kg.
And it would be silly for the Japanese to use 60 year old shells when they had brand new 16" AP shells for the Nagato and Mutsu; every source I've seen says the japanese used modified 16" AP shells.
This is not relevant at all vis a vis AQ / Taliban / Iraq, since 90 plus % of their arms were from the "former" USSR, Iran, Syria and the PRC. However, it is highly relevant to the PRC and to the future war we'll be in against them.
Fifth Avenue El alert! (You don't see that one every day.) Not exactly news, though, that they hit us with our reconstituted scrap.
Artillery Shell? Wrong choice of words to describe a bomb dropped from an airplane. Artillery shell implies it was fired from a cannon.
In response to your rather spicy remark I set about finding something on the Web to corroborate the issue one way or the other.
No luck so far, but I found one tid-bit I did not know and it made me laugh in the context of the discussion:
The US flag at the USS Arizona memorial is one of 5 places the flag is never lowered to half mast. The other 4?
The Alamo
Tomb of the Unknown
Betsy Ross Home
Sea of Tranquility on the Moon
The coastal batteries in use by the US right up until WW2 were 12" weren't they? These were the guns that, when fired, would recoil in a downward arc & disappear behind the casemate. The were used at major installations like Corregidor, the Presidio (San Fan Harbor), etc.
I saw a story about something similar to this on "Beyond Belief" the other week. A piece of shrapnel stamped "made in US" stuck in the driver seat of a jeep or something at Pearl Harbor during the Jap bombing. IIRC it was based on a true story. Not that I believe actual US made shells were used, but I could see the story stretched into an urban myth.
The Japanese took 16" AP shells for the Battleships Mutsu and Nagato and put fins on them, and dropped them from some of the Kate Torpedo bombers at Pearl Harbor. Hence, they were "artillery shells."
I didn't turn up any 15" US naval guns, either. Spain had some 15" coastal artillery,
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNSpain_15-45_mkB.htm
and some foreign navies used that size. (Britian, specifically; Germany had a metric equivalent at 38 cm.)
Boy you psycho's are out in full force today - what with new UFO postings and what-not, pull the foil down over your ears tight! those rays are deadly! ROFLMAO
I found something a little more official on the flag:
30. What three places is the American Flag flown at halfstaff at all times?
-Arlington National Cemetery
-Tomb of the Unknown Soldier
-USS Arizona Battleship at Pearl harbor
From:
FIELD ARTILLERY NCO STUDY GUIDE
January 2002
PUBLISHED BY THE NONCOMMISSIONED OFFICER
ACADEMY, FORT SILL, OKLAHOMA
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