Posted on 06/27/2005 1:42:52 PM PDT by Coleus
| Parents miss Mass, kids get ax |
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The Rev. Michael Cichon, pastor of St. Joseph/St. Thomas in Pleasant Plains, used each family's bar-coded donation envelope to track attendance. He's tossed about 300 kids from classes and told them not to reapply until next April. Without the classes, children cannot receive the sacraments, meaning some youngsters who thought they'd be making their First Communion next year will have to wait. The suspensions, legal under church doctrine, were a shock to many parents with kids enrolled in the 1,400-child program, which caters to kids who don't attend Catholic schools. "It's hurtful," said Joseph LoPizzo, 38, whose 6-year-old son was booted. "I've been a parishioner at that church for 23 years - longer than he's been the reverend." LoPizzo said he paid the $150 for his son's Thursday afternoon classes last year, but his father-in-law's illness hampered the family's church attendance. "I've just never heard of a church kicking you out," complained Lisa Nicol, 36, who got a letter saying her 7-year-old twin daughters had been barred from classes. "They should be more welcoming and sensitive." The pastor said he suspended kids from the 2005-2006 after-school program because Mass is an "essential" component of the Catholic faith. The affected families were attending church less than once a month, he said. Cichon insisted that the move has nothing to do with the lack of a donation. "There are many families who put absolutely nothing inside the envelopes they submit," he said. |
The term "neo-modernist" would be a very accurate, if somewhat charitable, description of the decadent regime of Cardinal Egan, McCarrick, Keeler & Co.
You should study Catholicism someday.
SD
I agree that the thief was likely not baptised. However, I hesitate to read into this extraordinary event rules for orindary people in ordinary times.
Someone who cries out to God in his death moment and is saved may very well attain heaven without ever doing good deeds on earth. I would not draw from that, that we have no need as Christians to do good deeds.
God gave us rules to follow and made Baptism necessary. God, as Rule-maker, is free to save others as He sees fit.
SD
Then I'm not understanding what baptism with the Holy Spirit means to you. Does the Holy Spirit have nothing to do with it? Or does is His presence only an outward sign with no effect otherwise?
To the best of my knowledge, my kids knew what they were doing and meant what they said
And if they didn't, being baptised with the Holy Spirit wasn't effective?
I honestly don't see how being baptised with the Holy Spirit can be said to be possibly effective, maybe not at all, unless you think baptism is something that God has no part in, only the baptizee.
I need to get off line now, but I'll be glad to continue this discussion later on. If you FReep-mail me your names, I'll include them in our prayer list. Either way I'll pray for y'all, since the Lord recognizes your screen names. Peace to all!
God sees all of eternity like a line stretched out within his complete line of vision. At this moment, He is witnessing every moment in time, including the sacrifice on Calvary which took place 2000 years ago from our finite point of view. To that end, He is also witnessing the resurrection. Holy Eucharist is not the re-sacrificing of Christ on Earth. It is the method by which Jesus faicilitates our participation in the eternal sacrifice being offered in heaven at this very moment. Unless that is grasped, it's understandable that you would think that this is some sort of "cannibalistic" ritual. It's not.
Lot of homework and whiping up on your end.
Actually, Christ didn't mean for it to be taken literally.
231 posted on 06/27/2005 6:58:17 PM EDT by Zavien Doombringer
Now you say: The scriptures are literal, not hidden code to be deciphered.
Which is it?
If Jesus didn’t mean for His words to be taken literally ("eat my flesh and drink my blood"), why did He allow almost all of His followers to leave Him over a miscommunication? The crowds knew He was speaking literally; otherwise they wouldn't have had any problem with what He said.
Surely the living Word of God would not have permitted such a colossal misunderstanding to take place.
Crucifix = A reminder of a constantly dying Christ
Eucharist = broken body of Christ to be eaten (Christ didn't have a broken bone in his body when he was crucified)
Mass = No salvation outside of mass or the Catholic Church. Bible states otherwise...
Apparently only sporadically.
If you want your kids raised in the Church, then RAISE THEM IN THE CHURCH. Attend Mass as a family, and LIVE your faith!
thanks for the discussion.
Peace to you also...
This would not apply to them. This applies to children in the Religious Education and SACRAMENT preparation programs for kids who are Catholic, and want to practice their faith.
You are limiting the definition of a broken body to "broken bones". The body is composed of much more than bones. It's also tissue and blood and water and nerves. Jesus' heart was pierced. His skin was broken by the whip. Although his bones were not broken like the thieves, one could conclude that they were at least "fractured" by the nails.
This has nothing to do with money. It deals with the COMMITMENT parents have for passing along their faith. If they aren't concerned enough to get themselves and their kids to Mass on Sunday, they're fallind down on their marriage vows before God to raise their kids in the faith.
Believe me. This is designed to be a wake up call to parents to remind them of their responsibilities as parents.
I sounds as though this wasn't a once in a while deal; it sounds like it is something that was ongoing.
At least you are historically literate, even if you cannot read. It is not a ritual of transubstantiation. Transubstantiation is a description of what occurs during the ritual.
Why go through it again?
He doesn't. Happier?
The Mass "re-presents" (1 Corinthians 11.26) the Sacrifice of the Cross. Rather like a re-enactment of an historical event.
There is nothing in scripture dictating this ritual. The early Christians did not do this ritual.
"For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come." (1 Cor. 11.26)
"Do this for a commemoration of me." (St. Luke 22.19)
""Assemble on the Lord’s day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist; but first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one. Anyone who has a difference with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice [Matt. 5:23–24]. For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, ‘Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is the wonder of nations’ [Mal. 1:11, 14]." (Didache 14 [A.D. 70])
"Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one Body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his Blood, and one single altar of sacrifice—even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God" (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Philadelphians 4 [A.D. 110]).
"God speaks by the mouth of Malachi, one of the twelve [minor prophets], as I said before, about the sacrifices at that time presented by you: ‘I have no pleasure in you, says the Lord, and I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands; for from the rising of the sun to the going down of the same, my name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering, for my name is great among the Gentiles . . . [Mal. 1:10–11]. He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us [Christians] who in every place offer sacrifices to him, that is, the bread of the Eucharist and also the cup of the Eucharist" (St. Justin the Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 41 [A.D. 155]).
"He took from among creation that which is bread, and gave thanks, saying, ‘This is my body.’ The cup likewise, which is from among the creation to which we belong, he confessed to be his blood. He taught the new sacrifice of the new covenant, of which Malachi, one of the twelve [minor] prophets, had signified beforehand: ‘You do not do my will, says the Lord Almighty, and I will not accept a sacrifice at your hands. For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure sacrifice; for great is my name among the Gentiles, says the Lord Almighty’ [Mal. 1:10–11]. By these words he makes it plain that the former people will cease to make offerings to God; but that in every place sacrifice will be offered to him, and indeed, a pure one, for his name is glorified among the Gentiles" (St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies 4:17:5 [A.D. 189]).
"If Christ Jesus, our Lord and God, is himself the high priest of God the Father; and if he offered himself as a sacrifice to the Father; and if he commanded that this be done in commemoration of himself, then certainly the priest, who imitates that which Christ did, truly functions in place of Christ" (St. Cyprian of Carthage, Letters 63:14 [A.D. 253]).
But not to historically literate, eh?
Well, if they aren't going to hell, then they are going to heaven, and thus saved. So if we are born saved, why must we get saved again? When did we lose that salvation?
If someone is the sole caregiver to a sick family member, that might be a problem. Usually there is someone who could stay with that person for one hour a week so you could get yourself and your family to Mass. There are volunteer orgainizations for the chronically ill who arrange for this! Or all they'd have to do is contact their Parish to see if someone in the Parish does this. I'll bet you there is!
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