Posted on 06/27/2005 1:42:52 PM PDT by Coleus
| Parents miss Mass, kids get ax |
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The Rev. Michael Cichon, pastor of St. Joseph/St. Thomas in Pleasant Plains, used each family's bar-coded donation envelope to track attendance. He's tossed about 300 kids from classes and told them not to reapply until next April. Without the classes, children cannot receive the sacraments, meaning some youngsters who thought they'd be making their First Communion next year will have to wait. The suspensions, legal under church doctrine, were a shock to many parents with kids enrolled in the 1,400-child program, which caters to kids who don't attend Catholic schools. "It's hurtful," said Joseph LoPizzo, 38, whose 6-year-old son was booted. "I've been a parishioner at that church for 23 years - longer than he's been the reverend." LoPizzo said he paid the $150 for his son's Thursday afternoon classes last year, but his father-in-law's illness hampered the family's church attendance. "I've just never heard of a church kicking you out," complained Lisa Nicol, 36, who got a letter saying her 7-year-old twin daughters had been barred from classes. "They should be more welcoming and sensitive." The pastor said he suspended kids from the 2005-2006 after-school program because Mass is an "essential" component of the Catholic faith. The affected families were attending church less than once a month, he said. Cichon insisted that the move has nothing to do with the lack of a donation. "There are many families who put absolutely nothing inside the envelopes they submit," he said. |
Yes, I believe they were indwelt by the Holy Spirit! The only example I can find in the Scripture where people were baptized by water and later on Paul baptized them with the Holy Spirit, it refers to people who had heard the teachings of John the Baptist. They may have heard something about Jesus, but they were baptized with John's baptism, i.e. a water baptism. As soon as they were properly taught and they believed in Jesus, they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Not exactly. I don't disagree or agree with it necessarily. I don't think it's important. It's a side issue. It won't get me to heaven or keep me from getting there. Christ is my only hope and path.
Your milage may differ.
no, if you are looking for a catholic answer to a question, you would go to a catholic source. However if you were to go to another outside source you would probably find a different answer...
This violates the rules of logic.
There are many kinds of conditional sentences.
"If X then Y" is one kind of conditional sentence. This is the form Paul used.
"If not X then not Y" is another kind of conditional sentence.
They are not equivalent.
When I say "If you eat 10,000 calories a day, then you will get fat" I do not mean "If you do not eat 10,000 calories a day you will not get fat" - because it is entirely conceivable that someone might eat 9,000 calories a day and still get fat. just because they are not eating 10,000 does not mean they will not get fat.
Which is precisely my point!
Christ decides who is saved and who is not - you don't get to decide that the baptism He saved you with doesn't take until you say so.
Paul, in his letter, was addressing people old enough to read or hear and understand the words he was writing.
he is not excluding infants from the baptismal font.
Was his baptism effective or is it possible they may need another one?
I apologise if I have been out of line. I love the Lord and you as well. Peace be with you.
No, I was talking about letting the children come to the savior,,in formal classes. Both are important.
Don't you believe parents have a responsibility to raise up their children with good habits and faith?
I do indeed.
Has your Church ever confirmed anyone who never attends services?
Not that I know of. But that is talking about parents, not children. The children would not be confirmed if they didn't believe. If they don't go, it would be in question.
My apologies to Protagoras and everyone for this bickering. Although I do not agree with his opinion, I've been letting my pride get in the way of being a charitable Christian. I acted like a jerk and wish all Christians only the best for today, tomorrow, and always.
In spite of differences among Christians, we should not fail to strive for unity. Bickering and launching flaming arrows at our perceived opponents is not the will of God.
So I publicly apologize for insulting Protagoras, and am ready to continue the discussion, if so desired, in the manner befitting a self-professed practicing Roman Catholic, and not as some arrogant "know-it-all" like I've been doing.
Apologies to all.
You said:
" It doesn't say "the Pastor's or the Parents' responsibility"..."
WRONG.... It does say it, but you obviously have not read the Catechism or you would have known this.
Try this on:
"2252
Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children in the faith, prayer, and all the virtues. They have the duty to provide as far as possible for the physical and spiritual needs of their children."
Let me know if you find the other references.
Sonar5
I can tell you this, the ritual of transubstantiation is not Christian, it is Egyptian.
As I have said before, God will not go agains't His own Word. HOw are you going to call down God, have Him manifest himself in the wafer/bread, to be eaten? The Sacrifice has been done. No other is needed. So why the ritual? This is idolatry, mysticism, divination with objects and all of this is forbidden in Deuteronomy. Will God lie? Will God change his words? Jesus already died. Why go through it again?
There is nothing in scripture dictating this ritual. The early Christians did not do this ritual.
Not that I know of. But that is talking about parents, not children. The children would not be confirmed if they didn't believe. If they don't go, it would be in question.
Thank you. That's all this is. The pastor is saying that he's not going to go through with a mock First Communion ceremony for those who can't be bothered coming to Mass.
SD
I have to go now, have a great day.
Have you thought that there are different ways to confess? Nobody could believe that God would expect someone to do something he is physically unable to do! But a mute person can walk to the front of the church and give witness that he has accepted Christ.
Are infants unable to be saved since they cannot confess or believe?
We believe that infants and children under the age of accountability are not expected to understand and believe. But as soon as they are old enough, our children are encouraged to make profession of faith. And before you ask about it, the age of accountability is not fixed, some children mature sooner than others. It is up to the parents and the pastor to recognize when a child is ready! As to what happens to children who die before reaching that age, they have not had a chance to sin. God would not condemn a child to hell because he hadn't had a chance to accept Him!
Jesus was the final sacrifice! Any other sacrifices are a slap to God's face. YOu would be saying.."Thanks God for your son, but I dont feel it's enough for me". Yet, it's God who can only forgive your sin and he has already told you how to get the forgiveness.
God the Father
Jesus = God incarnate, The Son
God The Holy Spirit
I believe in the Trinity.
Who can read another man's soul? To the best of my knowledge, my kids knew what they were doing and meant what they said, so I believe they were saved. Like I said in another post, the baptism comes after and it is only an outward sign of what's happened inside, i.e. death to the sin nature, dead buried and risen with Christ to a new life.
Good on both you guys for the needed reminder...
You are jumping to conclusions. I am neither a schismatic nor a card-carrying traditionalist. Neo-modernist is an accurate description of the dysfunctional approach to the faith common among the USCCB and taught in most homosexual-dominated seminaries. It's absurd to try to run this Godspell farce like a fascist police state. I have never heard of taking Mass attendance in my life. That sounds more like the police state cult of Henry VIII when Catholics were fined, jailed, or decapitated for failing to attend the bogus Anglican services. This is the WRONG way to offer pastoral leadership in a church founded by Christ. It sounds like some kook slipped through one of the pirate seminaries again.
It is very sad. It is also disheartening to witness first hand the slow extinguishing of the enthusiasm and faith and charity. I pray for all my students and hope.
I don't know what happened before, but a criminal condemned to death was not likely to having followed Jesus earlier. What we do know is that following his confession of belief in Christ, he had no chance of being baptized. And think of what faith! He saw Jesus scourged, beating to a pulp, nailed on a cross... and he still believed in Him!
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