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Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 3
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| 6/23/05
| freepers
Posted on 06/23/2005 10:44:51 AM PDT by stlnative
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To: cherry; TexKat; FR_addict
I did hear on FOX when Deepak's atty (I believe) was being interviewed that in the Dutch system they might list a whole slew of possible charges. Then they eliminate and focus on the one that can be proven. So that is why all those reasons for holding Paulus vdS are being given.
Also, thank you all for your concern about my son. I was told, by his doctor, after his 4th neurosurgery that "There is no medical reason he should be alive!- and that God must have a special plan for him." Imagine...but he is, and doing very well.
I was hesitant to post that, it happened over 15 years ago. He is in his 30's now, holds a Master's Degree and is working and has his own apt. Although I still have sadness for what he lost, and the plans he had that can never be realized, I am so very, very proud of what he has achieved. Yes, cases like this bring back some rough memories.
1,241
posted on
06/24/2005 9:42:17 PM PDT
by
CitizenM
("An excuse is worse than an lie, because an excuse is a lie hidden." Pope John Paul, II)
To: Palladin
The complicity to kidnapping charge intrigues me. You cannot "kidnap" a dead body. Does this mean that Paul VDS was involved in the crime(s) while Natalee was still alive? If so, what part did he play? From what and how I have heard the suspicions of PVDS and the rest I am not putting too much weight into it. My understanding is that this is being used in order to hold them.
1,242
posted on
06/24/2005 9:52:47 PM PDT
by
TexKat
(Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
To: texasbluebell
Great tagline!
I adapted it from your post #590...thanks for the inspiration. Beth Holloway is an inspiration as well and I hope and pray her perseverance and faith bear happy fruit.
1,243
posted on
06/24/2005 9:54:10 PM PDT
by
hummingbird
("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
To: varina davis
Yes, Varina...I heard two separate interviews of Natalee's friends and both said she introduced herself to Joran. One said she asked him to meet them at C and C's later. The other said she had not heard that particular conversation.
As to forcing her to go with them, I believe most all who saw her with the three boys leaving C and C's said she went willingly. I would think, if she were being forced or kidnapped, she would have struggled and the others would have come to her aid.
What happened after that is the question, but I think Natalee did what a lot of teens do: It was a summer fling, last night on vacation, she wanted to spend time with someone of interest, take it all in, etc. before going home. I also don't feel that Joran had anything to gain by forcing anything. He is a good looking, popular boy...if he wanted "sex" he could (or prob. has) have that relationship with someone there and not someone leaving the next day. It does not make sense that he forced himself on her.
I just feel these were teens acting like teens do. A little fun, petting, hormones acting up a bit. Maybe both should have behaved differently. Joran should have stayed home, as was the rule...Natalee should have just gone with her group back to the hotel. But their youth and exuberance led them a different direction, they let their guard down and focused only on the pleasure of the moment. How many of us have done that at one time or another in our lives? I bet some still do...LOL.
1,244
posted on
06/24/2005 9:54:30 PM PDT
by
CitizenM
("An excuse is worse than an lie, because an excuse is a lie hidden." Pope John Paul, II)
To: CitizenM
Ahhh CitizenM... I am sure you are SO proud of your son! Wonderful accomplishments...
Thank you for you post re the case as well. I too feel we shouldn't rush to judgement - something just seems SO strange .. but then it may be something as "simple" as something going wrong then a very stupid coverup..
To: hummingbird
and I hope and pray her perseverance and faith bear happy fruit. Oh yes, we all do.
To: pamlet
Yes, pamlet. I thought that also. I posted yesterday the possibility that Joran and Nat were on the beach, and either fell asleep...he woke, she had left, and he figured she went back to the hotel. So he went home. Lots of kids do that at these resort places. I remember on Spring Break kids would fall asleep on the beaches and I would see them staggering back in in the wee hours of the morning. (I was grown then, never did the spring break myself, nor would let my kids...but I saw it like that).
Or, he woke and she did not. Maybe she did pass out because even though she drank "responsably" as one friend said tonight on O'Reilly, it hit her hard later. So Joran went home, told his dad. Dad got angry that he had sneaked out but went back and Natalee was gone. Maybe they both figured she went to the hotel.
Later, when the news came about her disappearing, they made up the stupid story, because they felt Joran would be suspected of something more, since he was the last to have been seen with her. Stupid, yes...but understandable.
Or, of course like I said tonight...someone stole Natalee, and is framing the VdS family because of some grudge...maybe the father is truly at wit's end because of threats made.
It just seems so unreal that this family, with an obvious nice background, would be involved in some crime they planned. I offered more possibilities yesterday. I think there are so many that do not include Joran or his father commiting a crime against Natalee. But, it is possible the father knows something about the real criminal, and that is why he is being held and has been charged, and it has nothing to do with his son.
Whew. I am ready for bed. I hope I can sleep without nightmares about this. I am sure the mothers of all those teens are having a real problem sleeping without their children in the house and safe at their side. They must all be weeping constantly in the wee hours of the night.
1,247
posted on
06/24/2005 10:17:47 PM PDT
by
CitizenM
("An excuse is worse than an lie, because an excuse is a lie hidden." Pope John Paul, II)
To: CitizenM
Oh my gosh. What a story.
Sorry that I am in the minority, but this is MHO and I find no fault with others' feelings. (And no, I did not think Michael Jackson was innocent or OJ...so I am not a bleeding heart!) I hope my comments are taken in the perspective I offer them, and not as a challenge. I pray ever so much, and so hard for all the families and children in this horrible situation.
bump
To: Lizarde
What did PVDS mean when he said he "hopes his son stands up to the interogation". I found this a puzzling statement...
Yes, an odd turn of phrase...what are interrogation techniques in Aruba? Is PVDS implying some kind of physical or mental torture? Are Aruban police beyond physically torturing suspects?
Not casting aspersions on the Aruban Police, especially since I know very little about Aruba...just wondering what PVDS meant by hoping his son stood up to the interrogation...literally stand up or metaphorically be able to withstand being under lock and key and interrogated....
1,249
posted on
06/24/2005 10:20:32 PM PDT
by
hummingbird
("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
To: Lizarde
Beware the "S" word! Heh, heh, heh...let's just call them "Looneyologists."
1,250
posted on
06/24/2005 10:22:20 PM PDT
by
hummingbird
("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
To: texasbluebell
Then the last night the girls/women are there is the night they are given the drug, and assaulted, presumably because if they're leaving the next day, they're less likely to want to pursue charges.
Aruba is looking less and less like an Island Paradise...maybe they are cooking the books on their crime figures, or as in your post, charges aren't pursued by tourists ready to get the heck out of there after a bad experience on their last night. I understand there is a significantly large prison on the island; why would you need such a fortress if there was such little crime...
1,251
posted on
06/24/2005 10:28:35 PM PDT
by
hummingbird
("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
To: PeoplesRepublicOfWashington
Yes, it's a beautiful place, and you can walk and drive all over. You can stand in the trees where Stonewall Jackson was shot, and you can walk up roundtop or stand at the top and look down, imagining the charge. You can go into the woods where Lee had his headquarters, and don't miss Devil's den.
To: Lizarde
In civilized society, how does an innocent person not stand up to interogation?
What does Amnesty International (ack!) say about Aruba? Think I'll surf on that...bbl.
1,253
posted on
06/24/2005 10:32:21 PM PDT
by
hummingbird
("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
To: TexKat
There's that word again: premeditated.
To: No Surrender No Retreat
To: Lizarde
And one wonders what constitutes "brutal" to Joran and his Mother?
Multitasking here...still looking for prison conditions in Aruba. Wonder if conditions/interrogations are different for citizens vs. visitors?
Of course, police may be leaning more heavily on Joran considering the impact his activities may have on tourist season and on relations with US.
1,256
posted on
06/24/2005 10:37:57 PM PDT
by
hummingbird
("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
To: Howlin
What threads "out there?" I haven't had my fill of unappeasables and malcontents yet today...but I'm getting pretty close!
1,257
posted on
06/24/2005 10:41:25 PM PDT
by
hummingbird
("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
To: hummingbird
Pick anything to do with Bush or Rove; you'll see it.
To: af_vet_1981
This is a topic that brings all people of good will together, praying and hoping for Natalee to be delivered safely.
Amen.
1,259
posted on
06/24/2005 10:42:41 PM PDT
by
hummingbird
("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
To: TexKat
Looked closely at pics & comments but didn't see reference to any libraries or museums/sarc.
D'oh, there wouldn't be gallons of liquor in a library...what WAS I thinking....
1,260
posted on
06/24/2005 10:54:36 PM PDT
by
hummingbird
("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
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