Posted on 06/18/2005 8:15:49 AM PDT by Graybeard58
Before the parade passes her by, Tiffany Hasley will stand up for her right to perform with the Beatrice High School marching band. She'll be on the corner of 13th and Court streets in Beatrice at 8:30 a.m. this morning, all lined up for today's Homestead Days Parade.
Clarinet in hand, standing tall in her stiff new band shoes, she plans to leave quietly when school officials tell her she cannot march. Because the home-schooled eighth-grader does not want to make a scene, just a point. That is: Home-school students should be allowed to participate in any public school activity, as long as they pay taxes and live within the school district.
"I'm not in tears," she said. "But I'm kind of mad. My band teacher says I'm a good student. And I am first-chair clarinet."
Beatrice High School officials told Tiffany last month that she would not be able to participate in band next year as a ninth-grader. The school bars home-school students from being in activities regulated by the Nebraska School Activities Association.
Tiffany's parents, Ron and Vicki Hasley, plan to fight the school's decision, maybe even in court. But, at least for this summer, they figured she could still play with the band.
That's not the case, they learned Wednesday when band director Bruce Greenwell told Tiffany just before practice that Superintendent Dale Kruse decided she should sit out Saturday's parade. On Friday, the Hasleys received a formal letter from Kruse stating the same.
"They say she isn't registered, but no one has to be registered until school starts this fall," said Ron Hasley. "Really, quote me that policy. Show me that statute."
Both Kruse and BHS activities director Randy Coleman were unavailable for comment Friday.
But Roger Harris, attorney for the Beatrice school board, said the decision is consistent with school policy. No one can play in the band unless they are registered, full-time students at the school, he said.
"Even though marching in the parade is an informal thing, it's not open to just anyone," Harris said.
"Say a student from Wymore wanted to march. Would anyone care? Probably not. But the perception is, ‘This is the Beatrice High School band,' and we have to protect that."
Whether homeschool students can be in marching band is at the discretion of each school, said Jim Tenopir, director of the NSAA.
Band members can practice or perform at non-NSAA events such as parades or high school football games. But for competitive activities, the NSAA only allows students from accredited schools to compete against other students.
NSAA eligibility rules ensure that high school students keep up their grades and attend school regularly, or they cannot compete, Tenopir said.
Enforcing the very specific and rigid rules among homeschoolers would be impossible, he said.
"You are probably not going to hear a parent say, ‘I caught my kid smoking so please don't let him play football,'" Tenopir said.
But some state senators would like to change both school policies and NSAA rules to include homeschool students.
Legislative bills addressing that issue have been introduced for the past few years, most recently by Sens. Phil Erdman and Mike Foley. But none of the bills have made it out of committee.
Ron Hasley said he's "a constitution kind of guy," who will pursue the issue, not only for his daughter but for other homeschool students.
"I pay taxes," he said. "I'm asking for a service, and I'm not getting it. I hope what happens here sets precedence for the state."
LOL
nope, not at all...
I went to public schools but my parents were VERY involved in everything I did.
its going to be a couple years. My wife wants to finish her degree first, so when the kids go to school, she can go back to work.
In my mind, homeschool is just another form of private school.
There are not many private schools in this area, and so I'm not familiar with how the district handles such a situation when it comes to the homeschooled children and extra-curricula activities, or even certain types of classes.
There are a lot of sports activities that are run pretty much by the county instead of the school district and thus open to any school age child, regardless of where they attend school.
As to where to draw the line? I think a solution to that would be that if a child in private school, including homeschool, does not have a particular activity offered by the school and the public school the child would have attended does offer it - the child should be permitted to do so - but no district "shopping" should be allowed.
I think keeping the discussion open until a solution comes up is not the lazy way out - I think it's the only way a solution will be found.
Throughout my life I have never been concerned with judgment of other upon my beliefs or my actions, and I raise my children to feel the same way. IF they start to show me that is not something they are capable of doing RE:homeschooling I will re-evaluate it at that point.
As it stands now my children are happy with the choices we have made and I am happy with the choices we have made.
I don't know of one successful person in history who has been shaped or driven by society's stigmas. I know my kids will be successful in life no matter where they learn.
BTW- if those stigmas are out there, I have not experienced one of them- other than from my ultra liberal out of touch in laws.
We treat people with respect, no matter their choices- and we almost always get the same in return.
As far as Stigma goes, if for example my boys can not "rock the world" of an employer, or a lady they may be interested in dating, or a person they wish to be friends with, who may place a stigma upon my children for being homeschooled... then I have not done my job, and I think I do my job very well.
Thanks!
Isn't it funny how honest answers can be confused with snarky? Again, thanks.
Sometimes it means you want to learn how to be part of a band.
I have to admit that's news to me, and wasn't mentioned earlier in the thread. Is that fairly common nationwide?
Personally, this year I sent in 18 pages filled with detailed explanations of what my children would be learning. Then at the end of the school year, my kids all had to have a 'teacher evaluation' to prove that they learned it. Too bad they don't do this in the public school.
Indeed. I don't see the big deal about 18 pages, though. If you take the standard 3 months off in the summer, that's two pages a month.
Thanks for the information. I did not know that homeschooling, at least in some jurisdictions, was that closely monitored. That casts things in a somewhat different light.
I'm sorry that you believe parents wouldn't be able to enforce rules regarding their children. Maybe you wouldn't...others would
The issue wasn't parents being able to enforce rules. When you put a kid on a team, in the band or in other extracurriculars, you place the enforcement of the rules in the hands of teachers and administrators -- with little or no power to enforce the rules upon the students.
If a homeschooled kid is the star quarterback, it's likely the opposing team will challenge his standing. Which places the school in the unenviable position of having to voich for someone else's standards. Now, if there are generally objective means of measuring progress, that's not such an untenable position for them.
The police are available when you need them. The instruments should be available to the home educated children, as well as the music teachers expertise.
The music teacher's expertise is available to the students who enroll in the school. What's the difference between the music teacher's expertise and the physics teacher's? Or the guidance counselor's?
Perhaps in the future the schools will be able to cater to home-schoolers with a Chinese menu approach, one class from column A and another from column B, but it's not set up that way today.
Books at the public library are for everyone
No. They're for residents of the county or city that runs the library. I live in DeKalb county, and can't check out books in Fulton. I'm not one of their customers. I also can't check out books from public school libraries or state university libraries. I'm not one of the people they're tasked to serve.
but, instruments at the public school are only for certain kids, right?
Kids known as "their students." That is, and should be, the focus of the school's activities and the target of their budgets.
Widespread homeschooling is still a pretty new phenomenon. The educational establishment hasn't adjusted. I'll repeat that instead of trying to make home schooled students sort-of, kind-of public school student, you should be pressing for more resources independent of the schools. For example, a pool of musical instruments maintained by a local arts council, made available to schools and other groups and individuals.
One can outline on one page what will be covered in a whole year in one class.
I've never said any such thing, and as a matter of fact my eldest son will be attending the public middle school next year.
It makes me suspect that your problem with public school isn't academic/social/discipline. You simply can't handle your child being involved in something that you are not in control of.
That is absolutely ridiculous.
If a district rules allows homeschooling kids to participate, that is fine with me. I think the districts like that actually because it helps give them legitimacy (see, even homeschoolers want to be involved!) But the rules here don't allow that.
The district in this case did allow it because she played with the 8th grade band. The problem was that she wasn't registered to be in the public high school for the next school year (9th grade). The issue is that none of the other band members are registered either because registration takes place in the fall....yet they told this particular student that she couldn't play in the band over the summer because of that 'rule'. They are only enforcing the rule on her - nobody else. How do they even know if she'll be registered for the public high school or not in the fall? Maybe one of the current public schooled kids will be home schooled in 9th grade! You need to reread this article.
Good for you.
With who's money? That's my money that you are talking about pal. Keep your grubby little socialist fingers out of my bank account.
I think it's 'busy work' because after I send it in, nobody ever looks at it or cares about it in the Dept. of Education. As a matter of fact, this year, my kids teacher evaluation (at the end of the year) was randomly picked by the new administrator of the DOE so that she could use it for 'statistics'. Even though my evaluator (a certified teacher who has been teaching for 25 years) wrote the summary required by law and noted that my kids had made educational progress, the administrator want "specifics" in the summary about what they learned. Mind you, the administrator already has an 18 page document which specifically addresses that. Needless to say, my evaluator called the HSLDA and one of their reps. had a talk with the administrator about the law. So, you see? They don't trust the parent, they don't trust the certified teacher, and THEY are the control freaks.
Here in Kentucky, I've seen 2 previously homeschooled children enrolled in public school. The first grader (entered mid-first grade) could not read at all and didn't know his letters. The second grader could read and write well but couldn't add or subtract. I guess they 'got away' with that. And then they came to school and lowered the averages.
I think it's sad that you singled out these kids and that as a teacher, the thing that concerned you most was that they "lowered the averages". Maybe the kids had a learning disability, did you think of that? Maybe they were sick and couldn't do as much learning as they would have liked to. You know, one of my kids has a phonological disorder (speech problem) and it was very hard for him to recognize letters and attach them to sounds. He didn't know all of his letters by 1st grade either. It wasn't from a lack of teaching or because he was stupid. He has a speech/sound problem. Thankfully, he is now going into 4th grade and reads at a 4th grade level. Also, many boys don't start reading until later on...there are many studies about this.
My eldest, on the other hand, is going into 6th grade and reads at a 9th grade level. He's going to the middle school but everything will be a repeat for him...he knows it all already. So, he will still be doing lots of reading at home. All three of my kids have won art awards, state poetry competitions, golf awards, my eldest plays bass, another plays piano, they all speak German, and all passed the TASS tests with flying colors with scores as high as 98%.
I'm not writing this to 'brag' or that type of thing, but just remember that the next time you get a 1st grader in your class who (gasp) doesn't totally know his alphabet.
Life is balance. This is the down-side.
The truth is that public schools are institutions which perpetuate 'being average'. If someone is 'below average' they are stereotyped and cast aside with no innovative ways implemented to help them learn in the best way they can. If someone is 'above average' they are dumbed-down so that other 'average' kids will feel important. They're help back from their true potential. I think it would be great if schools from different areas of a town were combined to make it more like a unique college setting where kids could take the classes which suit them the best and they could flourish. Unfortunately, it's not like that. Whoever screams the loudest, gets the attention. Everyone else falls through the cracks into mediocrity.
Sorry, but in your rude post (#263) to me, you made insulting you too irrestible (see exerpt below). Perhaps I shouldn't have sent you into such a rage from the outset by calling your comments "spouting off" in my post #248,. You don't get to pick and choose. Got a problem with that? It must suck to be you, b/c that's the way the world works.
My last word on the subject is this: I really wasn't trying to insult you in post #248, but evidently used a poor choice of words. I have a long extensive history regarding educational issues and feel very passionately about the deterrioration of public education. As an educational advocate who is utterly disgusted with public education, I am horrified that big brother is trying to encroach on the rights of home schoolers.
Regarding home schoolers, fighting back is in my blood. Playing offense and putting school districts on defense is a game plan I happen to like. School taxes have sky-rocketed across this country while the quality of education has gotten lousier and down right negligent. If you ask me, about the only thing public schools are good for anymore IS their electives! Therefore, I support the rights of home schoolers to get SOMETHING for the outrageous tax bills they are forced to pay.
And as long as you get hold of that hair trigger of yours, I hope you do one day have children. Maybe then, you'll understand the passion I have.
I do understand some of the passion you have. My reaction was based on my sympathy for the students, who for whatever reason, are unable to take advantage of home schooling. For those students, the extracurricular activities seem to me to be like a bonus for having put up with all that's bad. They earned the right to them. Home schooled students miss out on the bad stuff, but get to take part in the good and that seems unfair to those who are stuck in the public system.
It is a weak position, I admit, and the solution is probably to scrap the disaster public schools have become.
My college syllabuses were typically two pages per class per semester. Two pages per class per quarter, for the few classes than had them in high school. It depends on how much detail is required.
AS a current Public School Band Director - I have been fearing such an circumstance - but have thus far been lucky and have dodged the bullet.
The issue here is a touchy one. In the city of Conway, Arkansas, they have put together a community "home school" orchestra and band. It is supported by home school families and is there to provide just this sort of opportunity.
Keep one thing in mind - at least in my state, if the student isn't registered, the school doesn't receive funding for that student - so the taxpayer reasoning isn't going to fly. Yes, those parents still pay taxes - but they aren't going to the school (property taxes that go directly to schools may be an exception). So what to do?
From my personal and professional point of view - if the homeschooled child wants to participate and fulfills all requirements to do so (attendance to all rehearsals and performances), then more power to them. THe problem comes from most state's interscholastic governing bodies - this applies to athletics as well as musical organizations and the rules for participation.
As the rules currently stand here in Arkansas (local districts may have more strict rules)- I can allow a homeschool child to participate in all activities of my band program EXCEPT marching and concert contests/competitions, region and state honor band auditions, solo& Ensemble festivals, etc. I could let them march at the Friday night football games, parades (if non-competitive), and concerts.
Local districts, though, are not likely to play along (no pun intended) though.
There HAS to be an educated class in our country in order for it to survive. Being tossed a so-called learning nugget of 'gosh knows what' from the educrats in the public school system isn't good for any of our kids. Unfortunately, because too many parent's heads are stuck in the sand, they think Johnny's & Susie's straight A's mean they're brilliant..... Wrong!
I could write a book about the horrible things kids are being taught in public schools, along with their cushy dumbed down schedules, but I won't bore you. Actually, I feel just as sorry for the home schooled kids as the ones in public schools. Home schooled kids are often made to feel odd and freaky, not to mention "unfairly privileged".
They don't get to enjoy the benefits of socialization and interaction of public schooled kids and are usually forced (by their circumstances) to grow up/mature much faster than their public school counter-parts.
When thinking about the home schooled, realize that they mostly have personal interaction with only their mother, father or siblings on a day to day basis. Kids are kids and long to be with other kids outside of the immediate family. Many home schooled kids resent the opportunity and advantage their parents have given them because they long to be like "other kids and feel normal".
Thank goodness the love of education and learning is held to such high esteem by home school parents. They are today's and tomorrow's heroes. They have to weather the tough times with their kids, fight off the state who is trying to usurp their parental authority and try to make their kids have as 'normal' a childhood as possible.
This is why I'm so adamate about public schools allowing home schoolers an opportunity to at least try out for teams/squads, etc. Everyone knows that quotas can be adjusted, if the school desires. I'm not advocating that a home schooler take a public school student's "spot" on a team or squad, just let the kid join in and contribute. And for what it's worth, you and I agree 100% in your remark: "the solution is probably to scrap the disaster public schools have become."
Amen and peace, brother!
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