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This is a non-political subject that could start a flame war. ;-)
1 posted on 06/16/2005 8:28:05 AM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480
Lucy: "Beethoven wasn't so great."
Schroeder: "What do you mean, 'Beethoven wasn't so great!'?"

Watch out or he'll whack you with that toy piano.

TS
(Charles M. Schulz's favorite composer was actually Brahms.)

27 posted on 06/16/2005 8:44:45 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a liberal when I married her.)
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To: Pyro7480
I wonder if they would criticize Tchiakovsky's personal life in a similar manner. "Great artist, flawed person" is a concept that likely goes back to the days of cave paintings.

-Eric

28 posted on 06/16/2005 8:45:19 AM PDT by E Rocc (If God is watching us, we can at least try to be entertaining)
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To: Pyro7480
Beethoven is the reason that I know Morse code for the letter V:

dot - dot - dot - DASH!

TS
(for Victory, of course!)

30 posted on 06/16/2005 8:47:05 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a liberal when I married her.)
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To: Pyro7480

Must one be an absolute idiot, pervert or commie to teach at a British University? This has to be one of the most ridiculous articles ever written. Beethoven's music was light years ahead on any of his contemporaries and to think that Mozart/Haydn's style could be exteneded forever it absurd. Music must change in order to remain alive. And to blame the hideous mess of atonalism on him is totally inappropriate.

Bach's music was totally ignored fifty years after his death. Thus, it wasn't even available as a model. As much as I love Haydn Beethoven blew his compositions away. He stands as a giant in his era.

No story is more tragic than that of Beethoven but had he been a happy light-hearted guy he likely would not have produced the greatest of his works. Life is sometimes NOT happy or even rational.


32 posted on 06/16/2005 8:50:55 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: Pyro7480

Say what you want, but ol' Ludwig ain't listening...


33 posted on 06/16/2005 8:52:40 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: Pyro7480

If Beethoven was so great, why doesn't he have his picture on a bubblegum card?


36 posted on 06/16/2005 8:55:33 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Pyro7480
Give me a break. I love Beethoven's music. Hell, it gives me a shiver down my spine.
Anyone that's listened to the 9th Symphony 4th movement, Ode to Joy, can't help but hear his genius.
His piano Sonata's are incredible too.
It sounds like this guy is basing his criticisms on the movie, Immortal Beloved
. Which everyone should see but from what I've read, it's about as accurate as Amadeus.

Anyone here ever try to play Pathetique or Moonlight Sonata?

I'm a horrible piano player but even people I know who have talent have a hard time with both. He was a brilliant composer as well as musician.

Party on Ludwig!

37 posted on 06/16/2005 8:55:49 AM PDT by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Pyro7480; Borges
If Beethoven had dedicated his obvious talents to serving the noble Pythagorean view of music, he might well have gone on to compose music even greater than that of Mozart.

What's this guy talking about? Some would say his music is already better than that of Mozart precisely because it reflects his own struggles and doesn't sound like every other classical piece.

Ping list? I would love to be on a classical music ping list.

I'll even do the ping list, if no one else volunteers. But I'll have to admit to being more of a visual artist than a musician (although I love music), and someone may have to ping me first for the interesting articles.

39 posted on 06/16/2005 8:56:45 AM PDT by Republicanprofessor
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To: Pyro7480

This guy needs to get over the pretensious "music flows from the universe" thing. Should we be deprived of the Moonlight Sonata because this guy doesnt think it's mathematically correct?


41 posted on 06/16/2005 8:57:30 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Often wrong, but never in doubt!)
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To: Pyro7480

1. Bach

2. Handel

3. Everybody else


42 posted on 06/16/2005 8:57:49 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Pyro7480
I LOVE Beethoven. It's not his fault about much of the crap composed after him. It's mostly the fault of government/foundation/university grants paying self-absorbed orchestral-jackson-pollacks to compose "important new works" that nobody wants to hear. The best music today comes from the private sector, i.e. FILM SCORES.

"Immortal Beloved" does a great job of showcasing some of Beethoven's brilliant works.

48 posted on 06/16/2005 9:04:03 AM PDT by Cinnamon Girl (OMGIIHIHOIIC ping list)
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To: Pyro7480

AND, if you read Beethoven's own writing (like his will) you will see that he was fully aware of his personal isolation due to his deafness and a fear that the public would doubt his abilities if they knew he was deaf.


50 posted on 06/16/2005 9:06:56 AM PDT by Cinnamon Girl (OMGIIHIHOIIC ping list)
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To: Pyro7480

Auntie is offering free downloads of its Beethoven symphony series here (and from what little I have heard it is not half bad):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/beethoven/downloads.shtml

The 7 day licence for 1-4 has expired but you will be able to get 5-9. Ah, the joys of State-owned broadcasting.


52 posted on 06/16/2005 9:09:17 AM PDT by Killing Time
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To: Pyro7480

Putting aside the operas, Motzart's pretty little pieces are as about as interesting to my mind, and about as stimulating to my heart, as watching grass grow. Give me Beethoven over that any day of the week. Even better is Hindemeth, some of Richard Strass, Samuel Barber, Walton, Benjamin Britten, and some of Dvorak.


53 posted on 06/16/2005 9:09:55 AM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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And he didn't have any kids cause his instrument was baroque.


54 posted on 06/16/2005 9:10:08 AM PDT by Cyber Ninja (His legacy is a stain on the dress.)
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To: Pyro7480

He isn't a hooligan. He's just misunderstood.

--Beethoven's mom.


56 posted on 06/16/2005 9:11:16 AM PDT by Blue Champagne (Quomodo cogis comas tuas sic videri?)
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To: Pyro7480

Rather listen to Beethoven than emo!


58 posted on 06/16/2005 9:12:59 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Pyro7480
...lecturer in intelligent autonomous systems...

I think the opinion of a musical amateur would be more appropriate. The guy seems not to understand Beethoven in particular nor musical history in general. Schoenberg and Weber and Webern etc. owe much more to Bach than to Beethoven; of course their work mostly stems from Brahams anyway.

On the other hand,before taking the author seriously, I would like to hear some of his music.

"A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic." ~ Jean Sibelius

69 posted on 06/16/2005 9:21:01 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Pyro7480
Hey Dylan, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel about Beethoven.

Beethoven sucks!

Does not!

Does too!

Not!

Does so!

Nuh-uh!

Uh-huh!

No way!

Way!

Dude!

Duuude!


74 posted on 06/16/2005 9:21:47 AM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Pyro7480

There was a whole movie (and musical) devoted to how a famous central-European composer was a genius but egotistical and eccentric. That was Mozart. Apparently he caught it from Beethoven.


81 posted on 06/16/2005 9:27:38 AM PDT by pogo101
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