Posted on 06/09/2005 1:06:46 PM PDT by clearsight
Texas Officials, Parents Spar Over Girl's Cancer Treatment Parents Think Doctors Have Not Been Upfront About Treatment Options
UPDATED: 11:41 am CDT June 9, 2005 CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas -- A judge has postponed until Friday a ruling that could prevent doctors from treating a 12-year-old girl who was taken from her parents after Texas officials accused them of not doing enough to treat her cancer.
It's the latest maneuver in a dispute over the medical care of Katie Wernecke, reported KPRC-TV in Houston. Her parents, Michele and Edward Wernecke, said their daughter's Hodgkin's disease is in remission and she doesn't need radiation treatment after undergoing a round of chemotherapy.
Texas Child Protective Services said her life could be in jeopardy if chemotherapy and radiation treatments don't resume. Speaking Thursday on NBC's "Today" show, Michele Wernecke said her daughter's illness is unique and should be treated as such. "I think they should treat her for what her body calls for and not standard protocol. Nobody will look at that," she said. "Not every cancer is the same. Nobody understands that. Her body is not standard, and her cancer is not standard."
The couple, members of the Church of God, have said they oppose blood transfusions unless they were from Katie's mother. Doctors have said the two aren't a match. The couple's attorney, Daniel Horne, said religion wasn't at issue. Rather, they believe doctors haven't been upfront about Katie's care and have not answered all their questions about the side effects of the radiation treatment.
"This issue is about parental rights, not about religious rights," Horne said. "They just want to be informed of her treatment. They want to be involved in this." Last week, authorities issued an Amber Alert to gain custody of Katie after receiving an anonymous tip about possible neglect.
She was found with her mother at a family ranch, about 80 miles west of Corpus Christi near Freer, on Saturday. She remains at the University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston to undergo tests, officials said. The Werneckes' three sons were placed in a foster home.
Michele Wernecke was arrested on charges of interfering with child custody and was released Monday after posting $50,000 bond. During a court hearing Wednesday, the couple asked juvenile court Judge Carl Lewis to bar doctors from providing radiation therapy until a custody hearing Wednesday.
The judge said he would make a decision Friday, the day before Katie's 13th birthday, because doctors in Houston will have more information then. Katie was diagnosed with cancer in January. In a videotaped statement recorded by her parents, Katie said she's feeling better.
"I don't need radiation treatment. And nobody asked me what I wanted. It's my body," she said. CPS also took custody of Katie's three siblings because their mother refused to cooperate with their investigation into the issue. A court hearing to determine who will be given custody of the children was set for June 15.
Katie's family has maintained a blog on the situation at prayforkatie.blogspot.com. The online journal offers updates on Katie's progress and allows supporters to leave messages for her.
Thank you.
"I do not know how some doctors got their licenses..."
Doctors learn what the DrugCartel wants them to learn. The Merck Manuals, the PDR etc are the doctor's bibles. Much of the medical research that is not supported by our tax dollars is supported by the DrugCartel. The results are dictated too often.
The fault with conventional medicine today is not the doctors individually. It is the system. The doctors are controlled by the system same as the patient.
DMSO is another example of FDA 'suppression' of a very viable natural substance that is beneficial in treating many things. DMSO should be the front-line treatment of choice in every stroke victim - DMSO dissolves blood clots quickly with no side effects. It can be given in an IV, orally or dermally via skin absorption. Many stroke victims would survive without side effects if treated early with DMSO. DMSO is also effective in treating nervous system damage, including spinal cord injury.
Vetinarians use DMSO. We have a horse who survived severe head injury and is alive today because of DMSO injected into the carotid artery (50/50 in saline). The DMSO reduced swelling in her brain and provided extra oxygen as it crossed the blood-brain barrier.
Athletes use DMSO for joint pain/swelling. It works.
DMSO is inexpensive - we pay less than $5 for a pint of 99-100% stuff (we buy it for our horses of course :) ).
One point of this is that often the vetinarian can and does provide better care for the animals than the doctor does for the animal owner. He does not have to operate under the same restrictions when treating animals.
"...what happens when one of their children gets cancer? "
"Or a loved one, or themselves...
I know a cardiovascular surgeon, a very successful, highly respected one, whose wife got breast cancer in the late 80's. She opted, with his blessing, to not have surgery, radiation or chemo, but rather chose an 'alternative route'. Today she is alive and well, free of the cancer.
I know of an oncologist who developed cancer - he chose not to subject himself to the radiation/chemo route because he said he KNEW they did not work, and that the side effects could be deadly. He chose an unconventional treatment route, and lives. He said that prior to his own cancer, he felt he had to continue doing the stuff that didn't work - said he otherwise would have been blacklisted by the AMA and hospitals where he practiced.
Does the AMA, drug industry conventional establishment try to prevent proven alternative treatments? YES!
Okay, so I just gave you two 'one-off' examples. There are many out there. Check it out for yourself."
Jesus H...you know personally of two medical professionals who either got cancer, or their loved one did...and they did not opt for the treatment they gave or witnessed being given to thousands of patients over the course of their careers....
They chose to go for alternative therapies...and lived to tell about it.
In a nutshell: These two med pros knew of efficacious treatments....
Used in only on themselves....
And have presided over thousands of painful, wrenching deaths.
What evil, horrific bastards.
For whatever extra time they bought on earth (which they'll probably use driving around in their water-powered cars), may they rot in hell for a hundred eternities.
There have been cancer patients who were given false hope with some treatments. After they were over they wished they hadn't been through them at all. What I mean by "pushing" is that I don't think it is made clear to them that they can get very ill from the treatment and still end up dead. It is presented more as a "you have to do this to have a chance." Or the implication is, "if you don't do this then you are missing the only opportunity to save your life." On the other hand, in some of these cases, they miss time they could have had with family and friends, taking dream trips, etc. by instead puking in a bed somewhere. My parent's friend was able to go visit relatives and wrap up a lot of things she wanted to do because she wasn't sick from the treatment. Again, I'm not against chemo/radiation but I think at some points the doctors hold out false hope.
Every time a detailed course of treatment has been recommended to me, I have been given a ream or two of paper to sign.
I read everything first. (They hate that.) I ask questions.
What you're talking about could be avoided if everyone would read before signing.
This is only partially a health care issue, in the original post. This is very much a state usurpation of parental rights issue, and the constant barrage of cases where this is an issue should scare the hell out of all parents (or prospective ones).
I've heard from multiple friends of mine, before they had kids, sentiments about how scary it is that the state can usurp parental rights and come in and take them away if they don't agree with how the parents are raising them.
. Don't be a jerk.
LQ
Well, to get the parents point of view, looks like the best bet is:
http://prayforkatie.blogspot.com/
I'm pretty sure that I was incorrect in guessing that they were talking about radiation for bone marrow transplant. They are talking about radiation as hopefully a last step to eliminate the cancer.
It also sounds like they doctors have had to get previous CPS/court orders to give the girl blood products without the parents consent. Unfortunately for the parents, this establishes a track record of them endangering their child. My guess is they will lose anything they try and contest at this point. IMO, their only hope is to find a pediatric oncologist who will review their case and testify that she doesn't need radiation.
"They chose to go for alternative therapies...and lived to tell about it.
In a nutshell: These two med pros knew of efficacious treatments....
Used in only on themselves...."
I am tempted not to reply - however, let me say that the cardiovascular surgeon was not treating cancer patients, other than being supportive of his wife's choice of alternative treatment - and they were both up front about her alternative treatment choice, telling anyone who wished to listen. What is so 'BLACK and EVIL' about that, John R?
The oncologist stopped treating patients conventionally after his own cancer experience. It was his own cancer that made him take a hard look at the conventional treatments he was obligated to prescribe by the system he was in. From that point he chose not to follow that path. Does 'conventional medicine' want to know about his successful alternative treatment? No. And is he BLACK & EVIL? I think not.
In another reply on this thread I commented about Dr William Kelley, dentist, who cured himself of pancreatic cancer using 'alternative treatment'. He chose after that to make his successful treatment available to any others who wanted it, and his successes continued - until the FDA shut him down.
You obviously have a closed mind on the subject of 'alternative treatment' and you are welcome to have it. Just because you buy into the MSM/DrugCartel/AMA/FDA 'teachings' on all this does not make it so; does not make them right.
I know of at least one case where the evil geniuses you have so much respect for sent bounty hunters into Mexico to kidnap a doctor and bring him back for trial in this country. He is in prison, but his clinic is operating successfully curing patients in Mexico, even as we speak. The treatment protocols that are having success in Mexico are the same as he used here and is now in prison because he used them here.
Many of the respected, successful treatment facilities are being operated in Mexico by MD's who were run out of town by the FDA/AMA/DrugCartel.
Are all conventional treatment protocols 'bad'? Are all alternative treatment protocols 'good'? No to both questions. Too much of both today is a 'roll of the dice' for the patient. I believe this is so because the FDA has too much authoritarian power over medical treatment choices, without having the best interest of the patient or of the doctor having to treat the patient.
In your superior wisdom, maybe you can figure out how to bring both of these groups together in a 'state of co-existance' where the proof of the various puddings can be done in the light of day and all protocols get a fair evaluation with results published for us all to see - both groups agreeing that the results were arrived at fairly and scientifically, without consideration of whether it is good or bad for the DrugCartel.
In the past some establishment research studies have been made and the researchers or their superiors have actually lied about the results, or have done the studies in a way to sabatoge the results, even when given specific instructions on how the treatment protocol was effective. Hydrazine sulfate evaluations are a case in point. If you decide to 'research' hydrazine sulfate you will have to do it carefully, because there is still a lot of the establishment lies out there on the subject.
That has been my observation, too. I suppose they sometimes make good decision but if they do it is kept quiet. The decisions we hear about seem absurd on their face.
As far as this seeming strange in a state like Texas, government functionaries are the same all over. The laws may be good but the interpretation and implementation are often bad. Bureaucrats have a way of asserting power and stiffening against opposition.
http://www.cancernews.com/articles/childhoodlymphomas.htm
What's weird is that the family is claiming that up front they were told that the treatment would be either chemo x2 + radiation if she responded well, OR chemo x4 if she didn't respond well. Well, she didn't respond well initially, and she apparently got chemo x4, and now the disagreement is about the radiation. It seems to me that if the cancer is advanced (stage 4, as in this case) and if it didn't respond as well as it could have (needed all 4 chemo cycles), that you would naturally want to be more agressive in trying to finish the cancer off. That's probably what the doctor's are thinking, anyway.
With children, the state will almost always side with the doctor if there is a disagreement about something this serious between the parents and the doctors. The fact that they tried to refuse her getting platelets and blood transfusions in the recent past makes the parents look very.... well, cavalier, about the life of their daughter.
For whatever reason, the family and their doctors are having and have had a lot of communication errors and/or disagreements for things to have gotten to this point.
Bottom line is that while there are some risks from radiation therapy, the doctors in this case must strongly feel that the potential benefits outweigh the risk. Alternatively the doctors just hate these people so much that they're creating a whole lot of work (and trouble) for themselves to give this additional treatment. (You can probably guess which one of these two that I think is the actual case! But to each his own.) I hope she gets better and stays better!
oh hog wash, and that goes for any treatment that significantly adds to life span. the older the group of patients gets, the more cancers (cardiovascular troubles, etc.) they will get.
You should have gone with your first inclination, not to respond at all.
I didn't use "BLACK and EVIL" anywhere in my post, by the way--I really don't know where you got that.
I am glad that you told me the heart surgeon (another error: I didn't say he treated cancer patients; I said he was a med pro who had to be aware of cancer treatments), was upfront about his wife's alternative treatment, and that the oncologist quit his business. That means they did have some integrity, even honor.
As for all the rest of it...man, you sure do go off, don't you? I can't answer every bit of it, but I will look into this Kelley dentist you cite, that's interesting.
You are otherwise very much out of control...I guess alternative cancer treatments are your own personal pit bull issue here on FR. My "closed mind,"
that I "buy into the MSM/DrugCartel/AMA/FDA 'teachings"..."MD's who were run out of town by the FDA/AMA/DrugCartel"...
"In your superior wisdom, maybe you can figure out how to bring both of these groups together in a 'state of co-existance'" (I never claimed superior wisdom, I was only trying to invoke common sense; another issue: Why does almost everyone on FR misspell "existence"?)....
"their superiors have actually lied about the results, or have done the studies in a way to sabatoge the results, even when given specific instructions on how the treatment protocol was effective." (blah, blah, blah, and another misspelling).
My first line of defense, in anything, is prayer, and I'm going to offer one up for you.
Then I fall back on my intellect, such as it is (as stated, I don't think it's "superior")...so I'd like to leave you with this:
Your ravings on this subject have all the hallmarks of the classically deluded and/or paranoid. No real facts, misstatements, "proof" that is anything but that...no full disclosures on "events" you say have transpired....
Classic.
This time, if your first impulse is to ignore me.....
Go with it, man.
I looked up hydrazine sulfate and came across two different abstracts reported in the 1995 Lung Cancer. In the first study, by researchers from the Scripps Clinic, the hydrazine sulfate group had no beneficial differences from the control group, but reported more neuropathy and a worse "quality of life." In the second, by the Mayo Clinic, the hydrazine sulfate group had a faster disease progression and a shorter lifespan.
From now on I will go with first inclinations, and ignore the existence of ignorance. As to BLACK and EVIL, go back and read your post...
"Used in ('in' is a new spelling for 'it'?) only on themselves....
And have presided over thousands of painful, wrenching deaths.
What evil, horrific bastards.
For whatever extra time they bought on earth (which they'll probably use driving around in their water-powered cars), may they rot in hell for a hundred eternities."
This all sounds like the rantings of an Elmer Gantry.
As for prayer, it works. I pray you will not need the services of the 'pros' you so revere.
BTW, Dr Kelley died a few months ago. But not from prostate cancer. He cured himself of that about 40 years ago. His treatment protocol (diet, with emphasis on fresh, raw fruits and vegetables plus the pancreatic enyzmes) lives on, as do many patients who have benefited from it. He reportedly treated some 30,000 patients. The pancreatic enzyme treatment he used was developed by Scottish embryologist, John Beard, DSc. Dr Nicholas J. Gonzalez, MD continues treating cancer patients with a modified Kelley protocol.
A few things, Gramps.
You used "BLACK and EVIL" in QUOTES, which is the universal way of...uh, quoting people. Since I didn't SAY that, you said a lie about me. You didn't "missquote" me, because I didn't say anything like that. You put words in my mouth. If you start to worry about the words you put in your own mouth, we're all gonna be a lot better off.
If you choose to interpret what I said as "BLACK and EVIL," you should let people know that you are indeed quoting someone...and it's yourself.
And a typo (in for it) is not a misspelling, per se.
As for your Dr. Kelley "reportedly treating 30,000" patients...that's ridiculous. The numbers are impossible. If approximately 30,000 people heard about his treatment (fresh vegetables and pancreatic enzymes--how radical--no wonder the FDA wanted him out of the way), then that's a different thing. They heard something about it...they peeled an orange and ate it. That's not "treatment."
As for the Elmer Gantry "rantings," two things: Thank you.
And if people and companies (as you have stated, several times now) are truly holding back "real" alternative cancer treatments while people get sicker and die...yeah, they are evil, horrific bastards.
In a different but similar vein: A new alternative cure has just been proven quite effective for the usually fatal BIWANATS condition: Log off, take a walk around the block, take another walk, around a longer block, take a dump, then STFU.
BIWANATS is an acronym for "Blowhard Idiots Who Are Not All That Smart."
I have seen those reports also, and in context. You have been kind enough to comment on those here, did you read anything else? Look at http://scri.ngen.com/ and http://www.hydrazinesulfate.org/ for Dr Gold's comments on some of the controversy regarding hydrazine sulfate. Russian studies have show rather unequivical efficacy of using hydrazine sulfate.
There is not a link to a published article.
Who wrote this?
I suspect that there is another side to this story.
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