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To: rwfromkansas
1Timothy 2 - 1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth *in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

Now either the Word of GOD (Bible) is errant or one of our interpretations is. Either GOD predestined all to be saved by providing THE WAY that they may be saved (believing/trusting in HIS SON)or GOD predetermined and preselected who would be saved beforehand with no chance of changing HIS decision.

GOD has provided THE WAY through which all might be saved, but all have the volition of free will to choose/accept/reject that predestined way of being saved. Read in it's whole, the Bible clearly indicates that GOD is merciful and desires all to be saved not predetermined and preselected on a person to person basis. Granted, GOD is omniscient and omnipresent, and so is not bound by time or lack of knowledge. HE knows who will be saved and who will not, but this is not the same as saying he predetermined/preselected/predestined who will be and who won't be saved.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

172 posted on 06/08/2005 10:20:32 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (Excrementum Occurum)
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To: OB1kNOb

I thought 1 Timothy 2 would be mentioned.

I already dealt with this one.

The "all" means "all kinds of men." Look at the beginning of the chapter. The prayers are to be made for all kinds of people: the lowly and the powerful.

That context continues through the rest of this verse. God desires all kinds of people to be saved. He gave himself as a ransom for all kinds of people.

Note that elsewhere he is said to be a ransom for MANY, not all.

And Scripture consistently says that God's will, his desire, can't be thwarted.

Therefore, if God is God, and he actually wanted all saved, he would git 'r done.

He hasn't.


177 posted on 06/08/2005 10:50:43 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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To: OB1kNOb

Isaiah 46:9-11:

9: Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10: Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Eph 1:11:

11: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Job 42:2:

"I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted."

Since God's will can't be thwarted, either the traditional Protestant interpretation of this text is correct or the Arminian one is, making Scripture a liar in Job 42:2 since not all are saved.

I choose to believe the former. We are to pray for "all men" in all sorts of situations...powerful and the lowly...and God desires the salvation of "all men," all kinds of men, the powerful and the lowly.

It doesn't mean he wants everybody in the entire world saved.

If he did, he would be violating his very nature by failing to do what he desired, which as you can see from the Scriptures above, when God wills something, it can't fail.


182 posted on 06/08/2005 10:59:37 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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