Serbia shocked by video showing Srebrenica shootings

The Guardian ^ | June 3, 2005 | Agencies in Belgrade

[Hoplite]

Agencies in Belgrade
Friday June 3, 2005
The Guardian

They are the images that have finally, 10 years later, shocked a nation. A man, several men, are unloaded from a truck, marched to a wooded hillside and shot, one by one, in the back. Two prisoners are ordered to carry the bodies to a barn. They too are then executed. The murder of thousands of Bosnian Muslims from Srebrenica in the summer of 1995 is well documented. But a video that emerged this week during the trial of the former Serbian president, Slobodan Milosevic, has provoked a bout of soul-searching in Serbia, parts of which are still in denial over the horrors of the Bosnian war.

The footage was the first such graphic material from the massacre in Srebrenica to be shown in the country, where more than half of the population refuses to believe it even took place, according to a poll last month. "Serbia is deeply shocked," President Boris Tadic said. "Those images are proof of a monstrous crime committed against persons of a different religion. And the guilty had walked as free men until now."

Eight alleged former members of a Serb paramilitary group, the Scorpions, filmed actually carrying out the murders, have been arrested on the strength of the footage, officials said yesterday.

The faces of the perpetrators can be seen and their insults to the Muslims heard. The film was shot by a member of the Scorpions.

"The killers had walked freely among us, on our streets, behaving as if they were ordinary, honorable citizens," Mr Tadic said. "All those who committed war crimes must be held accountable; only in this way will we be able to have a future. We must not close our eyes to the cruelty that took place."

He added that the crimes at Srebrenica "were carried out in the name of our nation".

"But crimes are always individual and the perpetrators of these monstrous crimes must be punished."

Srebrenica was overrun by Bosnian Serb forces in July 1995, with UN peacekeepers powerless to stop their advance. Some 8,000 Bosnian men and boys were led away to their deaths, survivors telling of how they were lined up and shot in several batches, then buried in mass graves.

The prime minister, Vojislav Kostunica, called the executions a "disgraceful".

UN prosecutors say the killings in the video footage took place on Mount Treskavica near the wartime Bosnian Serb capital, Pale, which is south-west of Srebrenica. The Scorpions were allegedly under orders from Serbian police in Belgrade and the link could directly tie Mr Milosevic with the crimes committed in Bosnia.

[Hoplite]

You miss the point - the Serbs started the slaughter in the Drina valley in 1992 - the Muslims didn't get organized until after Srebrenica was overrun the first time, in April of 1992. By that time, the Serbs had already set the tone of the campaign by basing their propaganda and actions on the World War II model and, in effect, making the '90s war a continuation of the internecine slaughter which took place during the German occupation. There is a rather noteworthy massacre which took place in the Bratunac School in May of '92 - some hundreds of Muslims were slaughtered, capping off a trail of death that had started up North in Bijeljina and worked its way down through Zvornik towards Srebrenica before Oric got the local Muslim TO's organized.

So if you're going to play the Kad Tad game, you had best get your facts straight as to who did what when - your Muslim fighter's statement is akin to a Jew saying they were taking pot shots at the Germans in order to goad them into bestial behavior.

Some folks don't need goading.

And when I state "your", it is only in regards to your referencing the individual, and implies nothing further.

I refer you to Chuck Sudetic's "Blood and Vengeance" - more than you ever wanted to know about the war in Eastern Bosnia, and a depressing testament to man's inhumanity towards his fellow man, and a damn sight easier reading than wading through hundreds of pages of ICTY testimony transcripts.

[dj_animal_2000]

Good questions...DTA...

Ma Bell, you have to admit DTA's questions are legitimate...

[Robert_Paulson2]

make sure you get it straight.
I and MOST americans have ZERO sympathy for these bastardes.
ZERO.

They qualify for field executions.
Period.

You and I may NOT agree on everything.
But WE agree on this.
Islamics deserved every ounce of lead they got in the bosnia debacle.... and WE were on the wrong side of the mess.

Bush remains on that wrong side today.
AND I voted for him.

[Tommyjo]

Completely incorrect. Good job you are not in command of troops on the battle field. Stop watching badly made war movies.

[duckln]

I refer you to Chuck Sudetic's "Blood and Vengeance"

Does he say anything about Racak? That piece of propaganda sparked the war and was completely debunked by Mi;osevic and the world.

Like I say, has Milosevic, and his team in Serbia, had a chance to cross-examine on the 'movie'? Or is this another 'hit and run'?

[joan]

Several people already have pointed out that it is completely bloodless. The scene of the men lying on the ground is of people arrested, (or perhaps of people even posing being arrested, for all we know), not injured or dead. There is no blood on their clothing, heads, or anywhere, nor any visual damage to their bodies.

Another guy viewing the video says it is spliced together, with perhaps archive footage of a town in Bosnia - Pale.

You can download a 1.2 minute snippet here. http://www.ogrish.com/archives/six_bosnian_muslim_men_from_srebrenica_being_executed_on_video_Jun_02_2005.html

The segment that has been released is not raw. There is no blood. All shoots conveniently seem to obscured by soldiers at the crucial moment.

Interesting are the scenes of of Pale (including Orthodox Bishop). So it appears that the claim is that these troops were sent from Pale for the "massacre" - which doesnt particularly implicate Milosevic (personally I dont care about what happens to Milosevic either way).
If I was to guess I would say this was archival footage of Pale that was spliced into a reenactment.

You glimpse into the psychology of the video makers by the shoot they have of the road sign Pale that fills the screen for a couple of seconds.

This is a classic technique - it is indicative of someone trying to associate a massacre with an opposite faction. Rather than bona fide shot selection from an amateur cameraman.

People with good links to Bosnian Serbs ought to see if the filmed Pale footage is remembered by anyone.

But this segment has been spliced around - so you would need the raw footage.
http://www.milosevic-discussion.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=332

[MarMema]

Ping to 146 and a request. Please ping any lists you have.

[ma bell]

hey, I never questioned it. I brought up facts from the past, where the BiH Army pre-staged cameramen for 'psuedo-Serb' atrocities, i.e Breadmarket massacre, the Romeo-Juliet Brdge shooting, Tuzla market mortar, funeral shooting in central Bosnia, etc... don't forget the 1994 Gorazde video phony shootings.

[Destro]

Those executed - as per the quote I posted from the video - were guilty of murder against Serbs.

[ma bell]

i have problems with the video. Clearly, none of the "muslims" are showing signs of nerviousness, no 7.62 rounds are penetrating the bodies, none. The video is inconclusive and of poor quality via Window Media Player.

[ma bell]

Why is it that you are correct?..:) We both agree on what you have just written?

Kladanj is a black town, like Srebrenica-Bratunac Corridor is, Milici etc... bad things still hover up in the clouds, you can still feel it if you ever make it to the area.

[joan]

Why do you even assume this is legit? The footage is not raw but spliced. Do you 100% believe this is real and not something like a phoney reenactment spliced with archive footage.

DTA told me that Natasa Kandic & others, in 2000 or 2001 (so well after the Kosovo war), sunk two empty perfectly good trucks and filmed divers going down and starting to open the doors for a reenactment which was shown on Serbian TV and about the freezer truck propaganda story. All of her stunts are designed to make the Serb public believe the hyped and featured atrocity stories. She was involved with Jack Kelley (former USA Today top reporter) who was found have made up many of his "news" stories (including ones on the former Yugoslavia).

[Robert_Paulson2]

I agree.
and if the video is real... then they got a small portion of what they deserved.
I just don't care for them or their lives.

[Robert_Paulson2]

I agree.
see post 106

I just couldn't care less about whatever happens to them....
more now than ever.

[joan]

"A Bosnian woman has positively identified her son as one of the victims shown in the video and his body was dug up from a mass grave a couple years ago."

That's the claim, but which one is her son and is her alleged son clearly identifiable in the video or the stills? It is very blurry and the faces are mostly obscured. Has anyone seen good photographs of her son and is any still clear enough to prove an exact match. Where was his body dug up and where is the autopsy report?

Serbs are saying this woman is being shown on TV holding photographs of her son in uniform - meaning he was a soldier. She also had another son who was wounded there, but evacuated to a hospital in Tuzla. So, it sounds like her other was injured fighting - they don't say who evacuated him nor how he was transported. After a short stay in the hospital (it had to be short because the war, which was almost over after Srebrenica, was still going on) he was later killed by shelling after he got out.

Just because she claims one of the men is her son there doesn't prove it. Did you see photos of her son and recognize that it is him from the video?

[DTA]

>>>>>>Why do you even assume this is legit?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Simply, because scumbags from ICTY EXPECT this response and hoped no one will look further into their "evidence"

, Let's assume the footage is authentic. But even if authentic, this is not an evidence that touted genocide of "8000 Bosnian Muslim men an d boys" took place.

It only alleges that six people were killed by Skorpions.

With any court, material evidence is subject to expert evaluation.

Then, the video can be analyzed frame by frame and exposed for what it is.

Natasa Kandic and ICTY hope that no one will treat this logically.

It does not surprise, because legal mindset is alien to them. Kandic is not a lawyer she falslely claim to be and ICTY is not a justice institution either. It is all mock, like Stalin's Moscow trials.

This 'video' could backfire badly and become a nail in the coffin of ICTY.

[Quinotto]

What about the videos of the mass murders committed by Muslims in Middle East and Asia? What about their past? What about mentioning the atrocities the Serbs suffered at the hands of the Ottoman Empire (not that it excuses their retribution against the local Muslims)? If I see or read one more piece about the abuse of the Muslims I am going to lose it, seriously. There is one book which should be mandatory reading for all the "infidels" and which will bring light, the TRUE light about the Muslim world and that is "History of the Arabs" by Dominique Sourdel.

[Nov3]

First to the general idiots who act like people said atrocities didn't occur that is plain false.

We just think the real idiots are the morons who think it wasn't started by the ragheads. I am sure the Chechen terrorists were there for fun and games like they like to believe.

If you want to support the Chechen terrorists against the Christians by all means do so. Just be up front about being a raghead apologist.