What if India and China Unite?

World Net Daily ^ | May 30, 2005 | Joseph Farah

[Jeff Head]

Sources in Delhi said the recent visit to India of Chinese People’s Liberation Army Chief of Staff General Liang Guangli was aimed at working on an improved protocol described as "confidence building measures" between the two militaries, reports Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

This is the first visit of a Chinese chief of staff in seven years. It is assumed by intelligence analysts that the Chinese and Indians are developing a protocol to prevent of accidental use of WMDs.

But what if it is more than that?

The warming of relations between China and India, the world's two biggest nations, is giving intelligence analysts in the West nightmares.

India, whose population is expected to surpass China's 1.2 billion some time in the next decade or two, has stopped eyeing Beijing as enemy No. 1.

In one of his meetings earlier this year with a top Indian official, the Chinese premier, Wen Jiabao, is reported to have remarked: "When we shake hands, the whole world will be watching."

Indeed he was right.

Together, the populations of the two giants equals more than a third of all the people on earth.

Without worrying about a threat from India, China is free to consider expansionist policies including, but not limited to, a move against Taiwan.

Separately, both China and India are becoming economic powerhouses. Together, acting in concert, they can make each other stronger – and the leaders of both nations openly acknowledge their preferences for cooperation rather than confrontation in what is being characterized as the dawn of the "Asian Century."

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[ATOMIC_PUNK]

Chindia?
Incha?
Chained ! hell thats sounds about right !

[Paul_Denton]

The EU treaty has already failed. We are still top dog, despite attempts by enemies within to bring us down. We are not going down without a fight and even if we do go down, we take the world down with us.

[Jeff Head]

And that's because our forefathers were blessed with an inspirational idea -- the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And that made us an anomoly, if not an outcast amongst the family of nations -- too free for the thugs of world who want to take us down lest their own people get any ideas.

Amen.

[Jeff Head]

decades of trade with the Chinese Communists have only given them the ability to line their own pockets and modernize their military and domestic police-state capabilities. Further economic and political entanglement, via the WTO, will only perpetuate the tragedy of Chinese Communism.

I agree, there is plenty of evidence that we are empowirng the ruling class to further solidify their hold on power internally and prepare to be better able to project it externally. At the same time, they are allowing a marginal increase in the conbdition of the masses (to mollify them), while rapidly increasing the wealth and prestige of the old communist party members.

Trouble is, that membership is relatively large because of the huge opverall population, sonewhere between 80 and 100 million...and 100 million rapidly advancing and wealthy Chinese can put on one heck of a show for our visiting dignitaries and corporate executives.

[Jeff Head]

Thanks, reasoned discourse on issues like this is always better and more instructive and eye-opening for all involved than insult.

[Jeff Head]

He most definitely is.

[Jeff Head]

I will not say it is definetly not going to happen when I see the earmarks of it potentially happening all around and in the actions of the two nations. It is in our (the US) best interest to ensure it does not happen by, as a nation, being actively involved in making offers to India and agreemetns with them that render anything the ChiComms offer moot.

That's my major point...and hope.

[Jeff Head]

The many announcements speak for themselves. We are giving the Paki's mucho military and economic support too which does not endear us to the Indians.

My point is, IMHO, we need to be doing much more to influence the Indians towards us. I believe the Bush administration is beginning to so and hope it continues through his and following administrations.

[USMMA_83]

This is so dang stupid...what is India and China unite. Heck, the bigger problem for all of us immediately is what is US and China unite!

[Jeff Head]

Such a union between us and China will only be possible if another Clinton-like administration comes into power and goes even further than Clinton did...and then only after waging an internal campagin against the patriots in this nation that would lead to civil war IMHO.

What is going on with India is a threat to our interests that is occurring now and being announced by both nations. I believe we should (and the Bush administration is) taking steps to try and influence India towards us and render China's offerings moot. It is, IMHO, long over due, and I hope it is not too late.

Just my own thoughts on the matter.

[USMMA_83]

My god...you are completely clueless in south-asian history, aren't you. Pakistan and China are akin to US and England. China is building the largest deep water port for Pakistan. In exchange they get to keep their naval presence in the Arabian sea. All, everone, of Pakistan's missles are Chinese. The Pakis have only painted them green with a white star and moon. China is supplying Pakistan with F-16 knock-off the the J7 or J17. How did the Chinese get an F-16 to copy....courtesy Pakistan! China has the Burma junta in their back-pocket. Pakistan's ISI has shifted operations from Afganistan to Bangladesh. China has started work on building a submarine base for Burma...Burma has not submarines...but guess who does. China has India surrounded by proxies...Bruma and Bangladesh to the east, Pakistan to the West, China to the North, and with the Chinese Navy presence in the Indian ocean and Arabian sea, to the South. Do you get any of this? Jeff is hawking his nonsence books....

[Jeff Head]

Actually, the United States sold F-16's to Pakistan...A and B models.

The F7 is a Chinese export of a modified Mig-21. Which do you think is more capable?

Paki, US Supplied F-16s

Paki, Chinese supplied F-7s

[USMMA_83]

Jeff, let's cut the crap for a second. India has been dealing with China for over 2000 years in one way or another. During any of that period, was there any alliance of any sort. The biggest thing that happened in the past 2000 years was India introduced martial arts and Buddhism to China. China introduced NOTHING in India. Nothing.

You have to agree that the US and China are much closer than India or China. Man, you read the world newspapers...you know that every damn time a Chinese leader leaves India, India tests a new missile or launches a satellite. You know they do that just to send a message to the Chinese. The Chinese and Indian's are old hands are rattling each others cages. They also make overtures to show each other how "big" hearted they are. Don't mistake that for an alliance!

[USMMA_83]

I'm not talking about the F7, I'm talking about the joint-production J17 or something like that...let me look it up...

[USMMA_83]

The PAF has begun technological collaborations with China and Iran, in part to develop its fledgling aeronautical industry base. Since the 1990s, the J-17 fighter has been a product of technological collaboration between Pakistan and China. (this from: http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/apr92005/spotlight19524200547.asp)

[Paul Ross]

"And your advancing a theory of trade "entanglement" preventing Chinese aggression proves your supposedly greater understanding?"

Quite the ego to assume that. I'll let you be happy with it.

Thanks, but not assumed. A very serious question was posed...and an exploration of your understanding, and seeking to get at why you believe the way you do. I've proffered a few reasons why I am skeptical of the china-taming trade entanglement thesis. It is a contention of the hyper-liberal Thomas Barnett who wrote the "The Pentagon's New Map." Clinton had fast-tracked him into a teaching position at the USN War College. From which perch, for more than 8 years, he lectured at Generals and Admirals telling them how it was impossible for China to go to war with us because of their (a) need for our trade and, (b) fear of our naval superiority. (Fortunately, he was terminated this December, and has lost his bully pulpit. Probably not for the right reasons, however. He probably became too obnoxious in his support for John Kerry, and Rumsfeld settled his bacon.)

This kind of Thomas Barnett/Strobe Talbott thinking must be braced if "we are to disenthrall ourselves", as Abraham Lincoln once said.

Oh, my idea of a truly healthy ego, one of my personal heroes, flaws and all:

[Paul Ross]

FYI

Last Of Peacekeeper Missiles Will Be Deactivated By September
(Inside The Air Force, May 27, 2005, Pg. 1)

"The last of the U.S. military's Peacekeeper intercontinental ballistic missiles will be dismantled this summer, closing a three-year deactivation process that is part of a larger scaling down of the country's nuclear arsenal."

[Jeff Head]

I do read...the Indians themselves have announced the econmic partnership, largest free trade zone, and a desire with the Chinese to lead technology within the next 10-15 years. These are their words.

I also read about their join military exercises, sonmething that would have been unthinkable ten to fifteen years ago.

There is no "crap" here, these are all documented occurances.

OTOH, we have been late in forging strategic ties witht the Indians. The Clintons treated them like dung. Now, the Bush administration is making inroads and I hope that continues, but India over the last 40 years has had to go to our adversaries (like the Soviets) to enhance their military capailities because we have been in bed with their enemies the Paki's.

I know China is too...but I mark the announcments coming out of New Delhi and Beijing with concern. My whole point, as I have said, is a hope that we will counter these moves with much stronger moves of our own to render the Chinese offers and agreements moot.

Anyhow, militarily, it is the US that has sold Pakistan the most advanced fighters. Those F-16's are not Chinese knock-offs...they are US manufactured aircraft sold to Pakistan. Such occurances in the past have hampered our relationship with the Indians.

[USMMA_83]

They are documented...just as it's documented that the US has even closer economic ties to china than india. It means nothing.

We both agree that a democratic in the white house is murder for India-US alliance. Bush-Condi-Blackwell are the best thing to happen for India/US. Clinton(s) are murder for this alliance.

[Jeff Head]

We both agree that a democratic in the white house is murder for India-US alliance. Bush-Condi-Blackwell are the best thing to happen for India/US. Clinton(s) are murder for this alliance.

Agreed whole heartidly. We cannot ignore the inroads the Chinese are making...we need to continue with the efforts that the Bush admin is making. That's my point.