Posted on 05/29/2005 11:43:58 PM PDT by John Filson
The .50-caliber rifle, one of the world’s best combat weapons, was invented 22 years ago in Murfreesboro, Tenn., by Ronnie Barrett.
How did he come up with the idea? "I was just a 26-year-old kid, and didn't know any better," he says.
But he knew enough to design a weapon that today is used by the armed forces of 35 different countries. He showed 60 Minutes a semi-automatic 82A1 rifle. "This was the first rifle that I designed, and has been our most popular rifle," he says. "This is the one that the United States Army ordered. Matter of fact, this is a U.S. Army rifle here."
Even though the .50-caliber rifle is a military-grade weapon, federal gun laws treat it like any other hunting rifle, and Barrett can sell the gun to civilians. He says he needs to, because military sales vary widely from year to year.
"If it weren’t for the civilian sales, I wouldn’t be here. There’s a lot of defense contractors that would not be here," says Barrett.
He has sold thousands of .50-caliber rifles to private citizens who, he says, want the guns for target shooting and big game hunting.
But he scoffs at critics who claim that .50-caliber rifles are too dangerous in the hands of civilians. "The .50 has an excellent record. You know, as far as the abuses with .50-caliber rifles, they are so few, if any, that all other calibers ought to aspire to have as good a record as it has," says Barrett. "And it's a long rifle. When you hear people say it’s a criminal’s weapon, this is 5-and-a-half feet tall, or something like that. This is not a weapon that a criminal would use."
It’s not convenience store robberies that worry Tom Diaz, a gun control advocate who was an expert witness in the California campaign to ban the gun.
Diaz says the .50-caliber rifle made by Barrett and other manufacturers is a menace in the hands of terrorists. "This gun is designed and built to smash things up and to set things on fire," says Diaz. "It’s a battlefield weapon. Yet it is sold as freely on the American civilian market as a .22 bolt action rifle."
What's wrong with Barrett's product?
"I'm glad Ronnie Barrett makes his rifle for our military forces. I think it's a great thing on the battlefield," says Diaz. "I just think that there are certain occasions when we say in our society, this product is such a threat to our health and safety, and in this case, our national security, we will not allow it."
But isn’t any gun in the hands of a terrorist a threat?
"Well of course any gun is. But it is a gun that is unparalleled by any other small arm available to civilians," says Diaz. "We control every other kind of weapon of war you can think of – machine guns, plastic explosives, rockets. But this thing has flown under the radar for about 20 years."
Why would you need a weapon this powerful if you're not fighting a war? "It's a target rifle. It's a toy," says Barrett. "It's a high-end adult recreational toy. Any rifle in the hands of a terrorist is a deadly weapon."
But New York City’s Police Commissioner Ray Kelly says the .50-caliber rifle is in a class by itself. He agreed to show 60 Minutes just how powerful the .50 caliber is.
First, a police sharpshooter fired the NYPD’s own .30 caliber sniper rifle at a steel target. Downrange, three football fields away, the three shots from the .30 caliber rifle bounced off the half-inch thick steel.
"You can see it hasn’t penetrated it," says Kelly.
Then the sharpshooter fired three rounds from a Barrett .50-caliber rifle at the same target.
"Went right through," says Kelly. "It is clearly a weapon of war, a round to be used in a wartime situation. It’s appropriate for the military. The effective range is about 2,000 yards. It’s a very formidable weapon."
In other words, if the NYPD’s range had been 20 football fields long, instead of three, the .50-caliber rifle – firing ordinary ammunition -- still would have been devastatingly effective.
"Clearly, it is a very powerful weapon. We saw what it could do as far as going through armor," says Kelly. "It would be a weapon that could do a lot of damage – no question about that."
This is exactly what the FBI learned in 1993 at Waco when Branch Davidians fired a Barrett .50-caliber sniper rifle at them.
In response, the FBI deployed Bradley fighting vehicles for protection. But even that wasn’t sufficient, and heavier armor was brought in.
What happened at Waco was one of the arguments made for banning the weapon in California. Other states are now considering a similar ban for fear of potential terrorist attacks.
"If you go through virtually any industrial state, you’ll see right off the highways all kinds of highly toxic and or flammable materials stored in big tanks. These are ideal targets," says Diaz. "The point is you can plan your attack from a longer distance. It’s the combination of range and power."
The standard .50-caliber bullet is four times heavier than the .30-caliber bullet, and 10 times heavier than the M16 bullet.
In addition to the standard .50-caliber bullet, some bullets are designed to pierce armor, some to set things on fire. Those are all legal to buy. But the most devastating .50-caliber bullet is an armor-piercing, incendiary and explosive round sometimes called Raufoss, after the company that makes it.
Barrett says he’s not concerned about Raufoss because it’s illegal. "It's a high-explosive round," he says. "It’s not available commercially. I can’t even buy it."
In fact, 60 Minutes found a number of sites on the Internet that claimed to be selling the explosive Raufoss ammunition. On one site, it witnessed someone making an apparent transaction of the illegal round.
Barrett said he was surprised. "If it is out there and if someone other than our military has it, then it is stolen," he says. "And those people need to be prosecuted. We have laws against that. Passing additional laws, you know, is just a redundancy."
But, according to Diaz, the threat posed by legal ammunition is frightening enough. There are many potential targets, he says, but the most obvious is commercial aviation.
"Do I believe I could shoot an aircraft at altitude? Of course not, but on takeoff and landing, I could take you to places in Washington, D.C., where I’m absolutely certain you could shoot an aircraft with one of these guns," says Diaz.
"Clearly, with the range that it has, and the impact capability that it has, it would put an airliner or an airplane at risk if it hit that plane," adds Kelly.
Could the gun be used by a terrorist to shoot down a commercial airliner?
"It'd be very difficult. It would if it were a tactic that were even remotely possible," says Barrett. "Then our military, who happens to use the rifle, would be training their troops to do such."
But in his sales brochures, Barrett advertises the .50-caliber as a weapon that can take planes down.
"There's some military brochures that we had early on that showed that you could damage aircraft on a runway or Scud missiles and things like that," says Barrett. "Yes, you could if you have a parked target."
But not in the air? "That's correct," says Barrett.
Just this past year, the Rand Corporation released a report identifying 11 potential terrorist scenarios involving Los Angeles International Airport.
In one scenario, “a sniper using a .50-caliber rifle fires at parked and taxiing aircraft.” The report concludes: “We were unable to identify any truly satisfactory solutions” for such an attack.
Diaz told 60 Minutes about other much more specific scenarios in which terrorists might use the weapon, which we chose not to broadcast.
"I consider some of the stuff Tom Diaz lays out irresponsible," says Barrett. "I know a lot of things, but I’m not going to go on the television and tell people what the capabilities of equipment are and possibly give ideas to people."
Is what Diaz is saying accurate? "Yes, it could be. But it also, seeming begging someone to commit this crime. Somebody please commit this crime so I can validate what I’ve been saying so long," says Barrett. "And it’s repeated over and over, and I fear that somebody will answer that call."
Diaz disagrees. "Its kind of a classic gun-industry argument," he says. "First, they deny there’s a problem and then when something happens, they point the finger at people who tried to warn about it and say you guys caused this and you just hoped it would happen."
Federal agencies responsible for preventing terrorist attacks declined to be interviewed about the .50-caliber rifle. But last June, the Department of Homeland Security told the Dallas Morning News, “We remain concerned about any weapon of choice that could potentially be used by a terrorist, including a .50-caliber rifle.”
"Any rifle could be used to engage a target that it might stand a chance of hitting, of course," says Barrett. "You know, you don’t want to shoot any high-speed projectile at an airplane. It’s illegal."
"A terrorist is not concerned about what’s legal or not," says Bradley.
"That’s correct," says Barrett. "And a terrorist is not concerned if you pass, or Tom Diaz passes, another law."
Diaz wants Congress to pass a law requiring, at a minimum, records to be kept of who’s buying .50-caliber rifles.
"The real question here is we do not know who has these terribly destructive rifles," says Diaz. "No one in the United States government knows who has these guns."
"Aren't records kept when a gun is sold," asks Bradley.
"The answer is no," says Diaz.
Under the Brady Bill, centralized sales records of guns used to be kept for 90 days, which enabled the FBI to check the names of gun purchasers against terror watch lists.
A year ago, at Attorney General John Ashcroft’s initiative, Congress reduced the period of record keeping from 90 days to 24 hours. That’s the policy that’s in effect today.
As someone else here said, they were combat engineer or tank recovery variants of the M60 that had been adapted. There are no M48-based vehicles in service any more that I am aware of, except for a few scattered Guard units (not in Texas).
IIRC, there was no recovered .50 BMG brass inside the compound from the defenders' positions, and there were no reports of .50 BMG strikes. However, there was plenty of .50BMG fire coming from the FBI/ATF side...
Wow, the thought police come a-crawlin' pretty fast when one boob starts spreading lies about someone, don't it?
For the last time--learn to read in context.
Hell, it might be nothing more than a professional courtesy. I do know no President has ever fully submitted to the "War Powers Act," but that seems to be an intra-branch battle they don't feel a need to fight. Usually they'll perform just enough of it's requirements to make the Congress look like they're trying to usurp Executive authority if they go after him in the Supreme Court, near as I can tell.
You really need two people to carry it around.The AP
round would completely go through a V8 auto engine.
The tracers stayed lit out to about 2000 meters.
Me: No military force is allowed in the United States that is not subject to the President of the United States.
You: When not called into federal service, the Militia still exist, and they are not under Presidential command at those times.
Now maybe in the Carolinas those two concepts are considered mutually exclusive: but they ain't anywhere else.
Are you trying to tell me the Constitution allows the Militias to refuse a call up from the President?
What you label as a "distinction without difference" is in fact a distinction specified by the Constitution itself.
By all means, distinguish away, but you're gonna feel lilke a real ass when you figure out you're hunting rabbit during duck season.
Now if you wanted to discuss the fact that our modern day application of this Constitutional provision has strayed from the original intention of the Framers of the Constitution, and that the National Guard of today is not the same thing as the Militia referred to in the Constitution, then we might have something to talk about.
This is the part you don't get. The President exerts his authority, they have to come, whether they're the Guard, or peasants with pitchforks. What the hell do you think "well regulated" means?
Amen to that. I'll go one more: The Government has 'em? Then I'm gonna need one.
Frankly, I have no more interest in the third degree from people on this thread. This bizarre fixation on one person's views of Second Amendment rights--when I've never stated them--is strangely fascinating, but ultimately extremely silly. Think what you want, I really don't care, though you obviously do.
I thought this said "Tourists"
So that's why there is a tourist season.
Hey! Quit posting gun porn on this site!
:)
>>Hell, it might be nothing more than a professional courtesy.<<
I've got a hunch that one of our State legislators reminded the Governor just what the rules were and how he needs to show more than a professional courtesy to the State citzens. Somewhere there must be a Nevada State law about when and how it is permissible and when it's not.
A year ago, at Attorney General John Ashcroft’s initiative, Congress reduced the period of record keeping from 90 days to 24 hours. That’s the policy that’s in effect today.
IIRC, 24 hours was the original requirement of the Brady Bull. The 90 day business was an arbirtary change made by Janet Reno and the the other Justice Department marxists of the Clinton era.
There isn't a more important issue before us today. If you don't care, we want to know, and we'll remember that you don't.
If you're interested in learning to care, we're here to help. We'd like to help because we believe that only by maintaining our rights may we have any hope of never needing to reacquire them by force.
I'm not trying to be a pain, fella. But sofar as I know, all Courts have consistently ruled that the "Supremacy Clause" is inviolate. Where State and Federal Constitutions conflict, the State MUST give way. Now I'm not saying your State doesn't have language that makes the President ask permission, but if it does you can rest assured it is not enforceable.
If the situation exists as you suspect, it would be a DIRECT challenge to the principle of Federalism.
Most ijits can't hit anything over 20 feet, much less 5,280. Let those who can, do, and those who whine, stay in the kennel.
Hey, that'd be a great way to deer hunt! Prep with mortars first.
Seriously, I think the 2nd Amendment refers to individual arms rather than area or crew served weapons.
But use of the word arms is certainly telling because it takes note that firearms were and still are an evolving technology. Heck when the 2nd was codified the technology had already evolved from the Brown Bess smooth bore to the use of rifled barrels for greater accuracy and greater range.
That's why it does not specify the muzzle loading flintlock rifle or pistol. That's why my AR-15 is covered today and my personal hand Phaser will be covered tomorrow.
Since you put it so cordially, as opposed to some of these weirdly-fixated people on the thread, I will say that several members of my immmediate family are card-carrying NRA members; I read almost every issue of the magazine when I'm over their houses; I believe that anyone who claims the Second Amendment speaks to "militia" rights can't seem to grasp that all of the other amendments apply to individual rights, so why would that one only apply to keeping a standing army armed; and my support for the Second Amendment is equal to that of the First, namely that it applies to any LEGAL U.S. citizen who wishes to exercise the rights almost without exception. Those who want to call me a troll for those last three words can piss up a rope because they're just looking for a fight.
That they do, is fascinating to me because the Constitution contains a State "supremecy clause" The Bill of rights, specifically the 10th amendment. Also the people supreme over the Federal Government.
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