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To: Ichneumon
"it's irrefutably true because it's something I happen to believe" argument.

Such an argument would be very weak indeed.

As a biblical creationist I have not stated that my belief is "irrefutably true because it's something I happen to believe." I believe what I believe because the evidence supports it, beginning with the heavens and earth which, by virtue of the energy vested in them and the design vested in my reason and senses, communicate their existence. It is a set up no human intelligence has been able to duplicate, so it is not unreasonable for me to accept this as evidence of an Intelligent Designer. That is all.

Meanwhile, how many people will boast that they know for certain the earth revolves around the sun when all they've done is take someone else's word for it? It is not "natural" to believe the earth revolves around the sun until one learns for himself by experience or by the testimony of someone else that it does. My reason and senses do not tell me the earth is round, either. That had to be preached to me. I happen to be a believer in that regard.

The Apollo lunar landings, however, I know for a fact to have been staged. I worked on the set.

979 posted on 05/26/2005 4:26:57 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew
[it's irrefutably true because it's something I happen to believe" argument.]

Such an argument would be very weak indeed.

Indeed it is, which is why I wish our resident creationists would stop employing it so often.

As a biblical creationist I have not stated that my belief is "irrefutably true because it's something I happen to believe."

I didn't say that you did. Nor did I say that anyone else had.

I was referring mostly to the frequent habit of creationists of posting as fact their fantasies about how science is actually done, or what evidence does or does not exist in support of evolution, or how evolutionary postulates have been arrived at and verified, etc.

The creationists frequently just make up, based on nothing but their ignorant presumptions, fantasies about how evolutionary biology "might" be performed by its practitioners, and then the creationists become convinced that these fantasies are how science is *actually* done. They'll post them over and over again, with perfect certainty, and not a shred of realization that their fairy-tales about biology are based on nothing but their own ignorance, and not a bit of real familiarity with the topic they're spouting off about.

It's so common it's practically pathological. It's so common that I suspect that whatever the bizarre mental flaw might be which causes some people to mistake their presumptions for facts, it's also what causes them to *be* anti-evolution creationists in the first place, rather like how other people seem to have particular mental quirks which predispose them to become unshakable conspiracy nuts.

It is a set up no human intelligence has been able to duplicate, so it is not unreasonable for me to accept this as evidence of an Intelligent Designer.

Yet again, we see the "we can't build it, so it must have been built, QED" fallacy in action. Amazing.

995 posted on 05/26/2005 4:48:15 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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