Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

US 'torpedoed Kursk nuclear sub'
The Australian ^ | May 09, 2005 | Daniel Stacey, London

Posted on 05/22/2005 2:27:06 PM PDT by demlosers

A FORMER British military official has backed a sensational claim that the Russian nuclear submarine, the Kursk, was torpedoed by US forces in August 2000.

An official inquest concluded that the disaster – in which all 118 crew drowned in the Barents Sea, 135km off the Russian coast – was caused by an accidental explosion of an onboard torpedo.

But Maurice Stradling, a former torpedo engineer and a key figure in the original investigation, believes a new French documentary, The Kursk: A Submarine in Troubled Waters, should change world opinion on the sinking.

"On the balance of probabilities, the Kursk was sunk by an American MK-48 torpedo," said Mr Stradling, formerly a senior member of the British Defence Ministry.

BBC editor Nick Fraser called the claim a "pack of lies" and has refused to air the documentary, which attracted a record audience of more than 4 million when it screened on French TV.

he BBC used Mr Stradling as its main authority for a documentary it made in 2001 – What Sank the Kursk?, in which Mr Stradling theorised that the sinking was caused by the malfunctioning of an old-fashioned HTP torpedo.

Mr Stradling, who also appears in the new French documentary, said: "At the time (2001), that was a perfectly reasonable film, given the facts as we knew them then, when there seemed to be no third-party involvement,"

The new explanation for the Kursk's downing is based on film footage of a hole in the side of the vessel, and evidence placing US submarines in the area at the time it was sunk.

The French film shows stills of the Kursk raised above the water after being salvaged, with a precise circular hole in its right side. The hole clearly bends inwards, consistent with an attack from outside the submarine.

A US military source in the documentary declares the hole to be the trademark evidence of an American MK-48 torpedo, which is made to melt cleanly through steel sheet due to a mechanism at its tip that combusts copper.

The film suggests the attack happened while two US submarines, the Toledo and Memphis, were shadowing the Kursk in a routine military exercise.

The documentary says the Toledo accidentally collided with the Kursk, at which point the Russian submarine opened its torpedo tubes, leading to an attack from the Memphis, which was protecting the damaged Toledo while it retreated.

The cause of the sinking was covered up at the time in an act of diplomacy between then US presidents Bill Clinton and Russian President Vladimir Putin – a deal that included the cancellation of $US10 billion ($12.5 billion) of Russian debt, the film states.

After the documentary received its only public broadcast in Britain, some claimed the Russian navy had drilled the hole and fed doctored footage to the film-makers to create a false impression.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: 200008; eurotrash; kursk; mikerivero; pantload; submarine; tinfoil; turass
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100101-120121-140141-142 next last
To: demlosers

Is this the guy who believes we never landed on the moon and Bill Clinton didn't rape Juanita Broaddrick?


121 posted on 05/22/2005 9:46:10 PM PDT by doug from upland (MOCKING DEMOCRATS 24/7 --- www.rightwingparodies.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: demlosers

The true story:)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1284127/posts?page=40#40


122 posted on 05/22/2005 9:50:09 PM PDT by quietolong
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SmithL

Clearly an explosion belw the ship.


123 posted on 05/22/2005 11:46:05 PM PDT by Always Independent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: theFIRMbss

Thats a surfaced launched MK46 torpedo, not a submarine launched MK48.


124 posted on 05/23/2005 4:50:23 AM PDT by SolitaryMan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: quietolong

LOL!!! Priceless!


125 posted on 05/23/2005 5:07:00 AM PDT by TXnMA (ATTN, ACLU & NAACP: There's no constitutionally protected right to NOT be offended -- Shove It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]

To: IonImplantGuru

That's a big twinkie of a torpedo

126 posted on 05/23/2005 10:42:01 AM PDT by Centurion2000 ("THE REDNECK PROBLEM" ..... we prefer the term, "Agro-Americans")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Nucluside

and I know some people in lower ranks who would ... I mean there are too many people involved to keep it quiet ....


127 posted on 05/23/2005 11:17:36 AM PDT by SkyDancer ("If Love Can't Buy You Happiness, You Don't Know Where To Shop")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
My dad knows people who work at Boeing - they say a seam rip could allow jet fuel to escape ... they also said that the fuel would ignite from the back forward, towards the plane because part of the plane shielded the engine heat ... that would cause the fuel to ignite in such a way to appear that something came up and hit it ...
128 posted on 05/23/2005 11:21:54 AM PDT by SkyDancer ("If Love Can't Buy You Happiness, You Don't Know Where To Shop")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer

Let's say we did sink it, SO WHAT!

IF they get so close to us that we get nervous or either side bumps another, someone is going to pull a trigger and I say better then than us.

So if it was internal, again - so what. what's done is done, it's over and that's that.

Think of it like this, they just released this information? imagine when they release the UFO data or we get a visit one day and they fess up to having captured alien craft - imagine that uproar. Even better, imagine what would happen if the JFK files was opened and we knew the truth about who and what.

Every day we engage, there is a air to air incident on a daily basis and from time to time we get on the edge of downing a plane. This stuff happens so I can't see what the big dead is.


129 posted on 05/23/2005 11:37:15 AM PDT by realnola (-realnola.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 128 | View Replies]

To: realnola

well neither do I - I'm not sure why you and that other person is so upset at me for just stating that people will talk for money ... as for the JFK thing, I'm still waiting for the book titled "How We Did It" ... I'm still not convinced that Oswald acted alone ... too many things that just don't add up ....


130 posted on 05/23/2005 11:45:26 AM PDT by SkyDancer ("If Love Can't Buy You Happiness, You Don't Know Where To Shop")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 129 | View Replies]

To: demlosers

Sure and a few hundred American sailors will never say what happened. Give me a break.


131 posted on 05/23/2005 11:45:27 AM PDT by KenmcG414
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IonImplantGuru
A more likely explanation is that something circular that was welded to the inside of the outer hull was torn away by the force of the torpedo room explosion/implosion.

It could also be post-disaster, i.e. from the salvage operation to get her back to the surface. Anyhow, it seems to me that any entry hole would be obliterated in the subsequent explosion and that the damage would be somewhat symmetrical to the impact location. Judging from your picture, it looks as if all the major damage is forward of the hole.

Also, I don't see the Russians giving us a pass regardless of how much debt we forgave. The bad PR for us would have been too tempting.

132 posted on 05/23/2005 12:15:54 PM PDT by Ranxerox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: TXnMA
Well, duh! Somehow your original post #36 '747'd me' (i.e., went over my head when I wasn't paying close enough attention) or I wouldn't have needed to make my post re 'size of hole ain't right'.

Great catch on the Brit 'abrasive water jet' site - I was able to steal it and repost over on a submariner's web site that is discussing the same story.

133 posted on 05/23/2005 2:45:22 PM PDT by IonImplantGuru (Give me heaven... or a 637!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies]

To: KenmcG414; demlosers
Sure and a few hundred American sailors will never say what happened. Give me a break.

Demlosers might give you a break, but I sure won't! There's a reason submariners call ourselves 'The Silent Service' - we're expected (and have sworn) to keep our mouths shut, both with respect to the capabilities of our boats and about what we do with them. 99.99% take that oath quite seriously.

By my estimates, 10's of thousands of sailors have passed through the submarine service since the beginning of the cold war. There were many many gnarly events and missions over those decades, and the general public will never know any of the details because of the oath we honor.

Look up the history of any attack submarine on the net; if you believe the official navy version, none of them ever did anything more exceptional than make 'training cruises' and participate in 'fleet exercises'.

Uh huh. Sure.

I'm not saying there has never been a leak about a submarine 'event'; I'm just pinging on you for your cavalier assumption that the crews of a couple of boats wouldn't be able to keep a secret. That said, the original story that started this thread is so bogus in so many ways (many pointed out by fellow Freepers) that it's obvious that for the Kursk incident there's no 'US submarine' secret that needs to be kept.

134 posted on 05/23/2005 3:39:38 PM PDT by IonImplantGuru (Give me heaven... or a 637!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 131 | View Replies]

To: IonImplantGuru
I was able to steal it and repost over on a submariner's web site that is discussing the same story.

Great! I hope FR gets full credit for nailing another bogus anti-US story!!

135 posted on 05/23/2005 3:40:18 PM PDT by TXnMA (ATTN, ACLU & NAACP: There's no constitutionally protected right to NOT be offended -- Shove It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies]

To: IonImplantGuru

Hey I hope you're right! But it isn't the same Navy it was 20 or 30 years ago. Just look at the recent event involving the sub that crashed into the undersea mountain. The former Commander was on the Discovery Channel singing like a bird as were many of his shipmates. The Navy even released undersea charts, the media was all over it.


136 posted on 05/24/2005 6:28:04 AM PDT by KenmcG414
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 134 | View Replies]

To: SolitaryMan

I concur. Those are MK46's. I once sat on a retriever boat for a week listening to half a dozen of those things pinging like mad after we picked them up. Very irritating.


137 posted on 05/24/2005 7:17:49 PM PDT by EricT. (Join the Soylent Green Party...We recycle dead environmentalists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: TXnMA

Another anti-American lie fest torpedoed in just 36 posts. This has got to be a new record.


138 posted on 05/24/2005 7:25:23 PM PDT by EricT. (Join the Soylent Green Party...We recycle dead environmentalists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: 75thOVI

Make sure you post the story and picture links here. A sub tender going down should make some wild pictures.


139 posted on 05/24/2005 7:56:07 PM PDT by EricT. (Join the Soylent Green Party...We recycle dead environmentalists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: R.W.Ratikal
If the Krusk opened its tarpedo tube doors or missle silo doors it was asking for trouble.

You've been reading too many Tom Clancy novels. Russian and American subs routinely open their torpedo tube doors. It is not an open invitation to being destroyed.

140 posted on 05/24/2005 8:17:06 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100101-120121-140141-142 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson