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Bush against embryonic stem cell research, warns Congress
Medical News Today, UK ^ | 5/22/05

Posted on 05/22/2005 8:14:44 AM PDT by Valin

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To: Tolik
"The clone wars of Star Wars, or genetic wars of Star Trek and all the worst nightmares of SciFi anti-utopias may still be ahead of us."

These clones are expendable chattel for the longevity of the super-rich. Any nation that eats of this fruit may one day find clones rebelling against it, siding with countries that oppose it. The question is, can the working clones, the inevitable outcome, one day be controlled somehow? According the Bible, people can one day be controlled through accepting the Mark of the Beast, but it will be a choice. There will be the freedom to say no, but there will be consequences for that choice.
61 posted on 05/25/2005 7:09:12 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (<<<< Profile page streamlined, solely devoted Schiavo research)
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To: wagglebee

"Embryonic stem cell research is, imho, a ruse that the culture of death is using to justify the fertilization and immediate destruction of embryos."

How about this? A ruse for having cloned bodies. Then the organs can be harvested from those bodies when the super-rich patient has a heart failure, for example.


62 posted on 05/25/2005 7:10:30 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (<<<< Profile page streamlined, solely devoted Schiavo research)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
It's basically the same thing. The culture of death is deeply embedded into western culture. Darwinism gave rise to eugenics, a concept which was actually developed by Darwin's cousin, Sir Francis Galton. Eugenics was a very fashionable concept through the early 20th century and Margaret Sanger was one if it's main supporters in America. Hitler decided to put eugenics into widespread practice and this was what lead to it becoming unpopular.

After WWII, the culture of death understood that their agenda had been severely damaged by Nazism, so they began to seek out other ways to employ their methods. The women's rights/birth control/abortion movement of the 60s and 70s was the groundwork for the culture of death/eugenics movement to reestablish their agenda. By first convincing the public that preventing conception was “harmless”, they then convinced the courts that the inherent “right” of women wasn’t simply to prevent conception, it was actually their right to prevent birth. The culture of death has waged war on anyone that opposes this, because it is the keystone to eugenics – the belief that not all lives are worthy of life.

After it became clear that the courts would “protect” abortion, the culture of death subtly resumed “classical” eugenics under the name euthanasia. Through a persistent campaign, the culture of death has been able to convince large segments of the public that some people “would be better off if they were dead,” and that “killing them is the most merciful thing to do.” They began by simply campaigning against “extraordinary” life support procedures because they knew that most people were sympathetic to this. However, as we recently learned, digestible food and water is now deemed “extraordinary;” and as we watched in horror, the culture of death calmly informed us that starvation and dehydration were “euphoric” and “beautiful” ways to die. And while this was going on, Hollywood began the campaign to convince us that the most “merciful” approach was to simply kill the “life no longer worth living” and avoid any further suffering.

Cloning is just the next step. If some lives are “not worth living” AND we have the capability to clone lives that “are worth living,” we should simply clone worthwhile lives. The entire belief system of the culture of death is Darwinism, it is the belief that there is no God and mankind is the CURRENT pinnacle of evolution and whoever is at the pinnacle of evolution is, at that moment, God. However, for man to REMAIN the pinnacle of evolution, and thus remain God, the undesirable segments of society must be eliminated and the “chosen people” must be in control. So, yes, cloning is certainly the culture of death’s next focus area.

63 posted on 05/25/2005 8:29:45 AM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

Actually, I believe it isn't so much a culture of death as a 'coalition of death'. There are many sub-groups in that coalition:

1. The hedonists. Abortion and homosexuality make everything more acceptable. Drugs and pot can make things more convenient for them, too. So does atheism.

2. The Anti-Christian zealots [not merely the casual Anti-Christians, but the ones who make a religion of hating Christians]. Abortion is a great way to tweak Christianity, to drive it to desperation. Most of them are marxists. They want to do everything possible to not only undermine Christian beliefs, but also to sabotage the US, since we are the leader of the Free World.

3. Envio-wackos. Too many carbon-spewing humans out there, endangering the 'fragile planet'.

4. Eugenics freaks. They are glad to see weaker people kill their own offspring, since in their minds, most who kill their own children are genetically inferior.


64 posted on 05/26/2005 6:09:37 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (<<<< Profile page streamlined, solely devoted Schiavo research)
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To: wagglebee; Tolik

"The entire belief system of the culture of death is Darwinism, it is the belief that there is no God and mankind is the CURRENT pinnacle of evolution and whoever is at the pinnacle of evolution is, at that moment, God."

Well said!


65 posted on 05/26/2005 6:12:00 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (<<<< Profile page streamlined, solely devoted Schiavo research)
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To: wagglebee
On the other side of the coin, I personally believe that Darwin helps us understand the genetic code. It fits neatly in the tapestry of Truth. And as for creationism, the days of Creation in Genesis were not solar days, since the sun did not exist on the first day. I believe that God can create man and woman from anything He desires. At the same time, I do believe the animals do evolve, and in fact, human skulls do indicate that our eye sockets have evolved over the past 2000 years.

I guess you can say I am DEVO: De-Evolution. I have no dog in the fight over our far distant past, more concerned about our future. As for what kids should be taught: school choice is the only logical solution.
66 posted on 05/26/2005 6:18:30 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (<<<< Profile page streamlined, solely devoted Schiavo research)
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To: Valin

I think every senator who votes for this should have to mate with his/her spouse then remove any embryo that results, and watch it get sliced up in a lab. Their children will qualify.


67 posted on 05/26/2005 6:23:35 AM PDT by Puddleglum (Thank God the Boston blowhard lost)
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To: ClaireSolt
I have two friends who have made a ton of money on Geron stock.

This is because embryonic research is the boondoggle of this decade, and it must be being pitched around the country by salesmen with slick PowerPoint shows or something because every state is now shrieking that it's the latest budget-balancing "catch -this-ship-before-it-sails" thing. And we all know that politicians can't undetstand anything that doesn't boil down to a few colorful slides with a unplifting musical track behind them.

It's the thing to invest in with promises of huge returns. In the 1980's it was oil wells. In the 1990's it was the Internet. For that matter, in the 1880's it was railroads to nowhere. That's what I'd say this is: lots of promises, lots of official-looking paper issued, a few more millionaires, and a lot of people out a buck or thousand or two. Oh, and it's unethical.

68 posted on 05/26/2005 6:29:18 AM PDT by Puddleglum (Thank God the Boston blowhard lost)
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To: Puddleglum

This leads to the basic abortion question.
Is the fetus/embryo a human being? And until we come to an agreement on this question this "controversy" will not go away.

For what it's worth, I believe they are human beings, don't believe me..wait around 9 months.


69 posted on 05/26/2005 6:30:29 AM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: Puddleglum

I agree it looks like a boondoggle. In fact, I think the government can only harm science.


70 posted on 05/26/2005 1:40:36 PM PDT by ClaireSolt (.)
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