Civil War sword of shame-Forged in the hopes of glory, surrendered in disgrace, it's Minnesota's …

Pioneer Press ^ | 5-18-05 | DAVID HAWLEY

[Rakkasan1]

Maybe it should be named the Sword of Humiliation.

This month, the Minnesota Historical Society's History Center in St. Paul plans to display a ceremonial sword once owned by a disgraced Civil War officer who surrendered his regiment without a fight.

Col. Henry C. Lester, a 31-year-old former clerk of court from Winona, Minn., was drummed out of the Army for surrendering the Third Minnesota Volunteer Regiment to Confederate cavalry commander Nathan Bedford Forrest during an engagement July 13, 1862, in Murfreesboro, Tenn.

Among other things, Lester was duped into thinking his 514-member regiment faced vastly overwhelming odds. Many of his men never forgave him.

[Rakkasan1]

http://www.barbneal.com/wav/ltunes/yosemite/Sam31.wav

[PeterPrinciple]

"...was drummed out of the Army ...."


Does anyone know the history of this. Reminded me of the tv show "Branded". Do we still do this?

[mikeus_maximus]

In contrast, the 1st MN showed incredible bravery and self-sacrifice at Gettysburg.

[2banana]

Well, Gen Forrest was probably the best commander ever produced by America...

We could use him today in Iraq...

[FreedomCalls]

Reminded me of the tv show "Branded".

"Branded" TV Theme song

[contemplator]

"..Do we still do this?..

You bet, think about a certain Female Army General who was demoted to Colonel just recently. It was one step away from her being asked to resign her commission. Officers are told that they should resign their commissions rather than face harsher punishments all the time.

[jonascord]

Forrest was famous for running a bluff on Union officers "to prevent the further effusion of blood..."

he once ran the same six guns past a gap in some trees several times to convince a Union officer that the Union guard unit was moments from annihilation. There were a few commanders that called Ol' Nathan, but they were few and far between, since the deal back then was to surrender, get paroled, and be on your way home within the hour to wait for exchange.

It wasn't until Grant barred the Exchange program that places like Camp Douglas, Point Lookout and Andersonville started to fill up.

[CatoRenasci]

Do we still do this?

No, in the active military such ceremonies are long gone. The Virginia Military Institute still "drums out" those convicted of honor violations in a ceremony held in the wee hours of the morning with the formulaic "Cadet So-and-so placed personal gain above personal honor, he/she [one line generalized description of violation]. His/her name will never be mentioned again."

[School of Rational Thought]

He was "propeace" ;-)

[rellimpank]

--obviously not a student of the George Custer school of thought--

[Tennessee_Bob]

How about the female B-52 pilot several years ago. She was having an affair with a married enlisted guy and refused to stop. They got rid of her.

[gridlock]

"We got an e-mail from one person who said he'd rather see the 28th Virginia battle flag returned than see this sword on display," Scher said, referring to a controversy over ownership of a Confederate flag captured by Minnesota soldiers during the Battle of Gettysburg.

Nobody is seriously talking about returning this flag to Virginia, are they? That would be flat-out wrong, IMHO.

[contemplator]

Yep, the other poster is correct in that the 'drumming out' ceremony is no longer used, but the act of getting rid of officers deemed "unfit" happens all of the time.

[ARCADIA]

Well, Gen Forrest was probably the best commander ever produced by America...

Forrest was a brilliant tactician; Many others surrenderd too him, at least one after losing most of his command despite a more then 3 to 1 advantage. If he would have been born a century later Forrest would have been credited with inventing JIT operational planning.

[OKIEDOC]

Sounds like to me that Col. Lester had bought into the liberalism as taught by the French to our current Democratic party leaders and Main Stream Press.

Do you know that the federal government pays the attorneys fee for the ACLU when they sue traditional American groups.

[joebuck]

"Well, Gen Forrest was probably the best commander ever produced by America..."

Although there was that nasty incident at Ft. Pillow which will always be an ugly stain on his legacy. I do agree, however, that he is one of the best military commanders in our history. Shelby Foote says there were two true geniuses produced in the civil war; Abe Lincoln and Nathan Bedford Forrest. I would add US Grant to that just because I consider him to be the greatest American general ever.

[contemplator]

"..I would add US Grant to that just because I consider him to be the greatest American General ever."

Ditto.

[Airborne1986]

"I would add US Grant to that just because I consider him to be the greatest American general ever."

Agreed. But I would also add Andrew Jackson (Battle of New Orleans).

[robowombat]

Grant remains a true mystery. An aggressive and highly competent company grade officer in the Mexican War (and yes I suspect Lee did remember meeting him but demurred at Appomattox to avoid Grant launching into another round of old home week reminiscence. Lee would rather have died a thousand deaths than end up there in Wilbur McLain's parlor and he just wanted to get the business done as quickly as possible)he completely fell apart during garrison duty in remote and primitive (that's an understatement) posts in California. Subsequently back in Illinois living basically on the charity of his overbearing father Grant seems to have been one of those sad broken men utterly defeated by life. The only reason he got a regiment at the start of the war was it was considered uncontrollable by politically ambitious types who wanted nothing to do with it and Grant was available and had graduated from the USMA. From there he goes up like a rocket, tames the regiment, makes a name as a fighting general at the chaotic battle of Belmont and the rest is history. I am a southerner and I have to say that Jubal Early's campaign of aspersions aside Grant has been considered a great soldier in the south since the WBTS. As one SCV Camp commander called him he is seen as 'the emblematic American soldier'. But he still is a mystery.

[contemplator]

Grant's "utter defeat by life" was in and of itself a sign of his character. His business failed because his kind heart would not permit him to press those who owed him debts. He would rather face the failure and burdens of poverty and failure himself than subject others to them. Later in life he exhibited the exact same tendency when his father in law forced a slave upon him. Although he was in financial straights, he refused to sell the man and instead granted him his freedom. Grant's personality was a mystery only to those who do not understand his overwhelming sense of selflessness and ability to perservere through hard times when any other person would have given up.