Posted on 05/12/2005 7:46:54 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
Members of the President's Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform on May 11 expressed concerns over the FairTax national retail sales tax, a plan that has emerged as an alternative with a major grass-roots push.
Panel chair Connie Mack, vice chair John B. Breaux, and other members worried the plan would be difficult to enforce, would be regressive, and would require a high rate in order to take in enough money to fund the government.
Breaux raised concerns that the proposed 23 percent (tax-inclusive) rate would not be sufficient to raise the revenue necessary to fund the government. The Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that it would take as much as a 57 percent (tax-exclusive) rate to be revenue-neutral. Further, Breaux said he thought exemptions that would be carved out to make the sales tax progressive would also complicate it.
Mack, who raised concerns similar to his fellow panelists', said he was "intrigued" by the plan. "But if it's such a great idea, why haven't other political entities around the world pursued it?" he asked.
Americans for Fair Taxation Executive Director Tom Wright emphasized that the plan emerged after "thorough academic research" and "thorough polling" The strong grass-roots push has resulted in some of the group's 600,000 members appearing at each of the panel's hearings and has inspired a large comment-writing campaign to the panel in support of the plan.
Sales tax advocates were among the 20 witnesses who gathered before the panel for a full day of testimony on tax reform proposals. Although the group has held several other hearings in Washington and around the country, the May 11 meeting was its first hearing on specific reform plans since Bush appointed the panel in January. The panel has been charged with identifying tax reform proposals that are progressive, encourage charitable giving and home purchases, and are revenue-neutral. The proposals are due by July 31.
Among the tax replacement and reform plans presented to the panel were the value added tax, consumption-based tax, and the flat tax, as well as proposals that would use the current income tax as the foundation.
Witnesses generally claimed that theirs was the fairest, simplest, most flexible, most transparent revenue-neutral proposal that would improve economic growth and savings while meeting the president's criteria of encouraging charitable giving and home buying. Witnesses presenting consumption-based plans praised their overhaul as taking millions of low-income taxpayers off the rolls, being easy to transition to on a worldwide basis, and including safeguards to prevent new loopholes that would result in increased complexity down the road.
Tax reform panel members, who agree the current tax system needs to be fixed, grilled witnesses without revealing whether they will ultimately endorse a consumption- or income-based tax or a different mixture of the two.
Of course businesses factor in all "costs" but you don't seem to grasp the fact that income taxes are NOT a "cost."
Introductory Microeconomics might help.
The idea that there are no "bureaucrats" in business is laughable. I have held many jobs in the private sector from Paper Mills, to Laboratory work. I have worked for Sears, construction, Cancer Research labs, industrial laundry, brewery, bag plants, chemical plants, publishing and Banks to name a few.
Read my original post. I did not speak of cascading taxes but of something you said you've never heard of.
BTW, when does Larken Rose's trial start?
principled, is that you?
You have me at a disadvantage there... I have no idea what a "Larken Rose" is.
I will have to admit, tho, I'm not in your league as a dodger of questions.
You mean questions like am I also posting as Your Nightmare or LiberalLarry or balrogg666? Or other irrelevant questions like a Larken Rose trial...whatever that is?..Otherwise why ask me any questions? You seem to think you have all the answers.."tho" you can't/won't answer one...
I still want to know what the official AFT./hr25 position is on audits of individual CEO's and their companies suspected of being compensated with tax free earnings by whatever form.
Income Tax is A COST, they just don't pay it immidiately, but they do factor it into their prices. Ask a business owner, they will back my up.
You mistake accountants with bureaucrats.
Perhaps you think CNN does not sell things at retail, eh?
Oh yea they're a huge retail outlet...forgive me.
Does that mean hr25 allows audits on individual CNN employee's compensation?
Income taxes are as real as rent, electricity, direct materials and direct labor. Any businessman worth his salt factors the tax cost into his calculations.
Nope....never really heard of cascading costs. Cascading in my mind is like compounding......APT tax compounds.
I never said you said it was resolved. What I wrote was a premise. Maybe that is why your crowd is having such a difficult time explaining things. To be able to think through issues takes intelligence dominated by the ability to process language.
Read my original post. I did not speak of cascading taxes but of something you said you've never heard of.Yeah, "cost cascading." I'm still waiting for an illustration with numbers of this.
"But I have stated that I have no affiliations with any organization and that I certainly aren't being paid by any organization. You have refused to if you are being paid by the AFT."
If you are trying to say that I have refused to disclose my personal financial matters on a web blog, you are quite correct.
I have also pointed out that you refuse to disclose your professional economic qualifications and have declined to appear in a public debate to enable those trying to make an informed decision to weigh the validity of your perspective. Looks like we have a stalemate, huh?
"...but you don't seem to grasp the fact that income taxes are NOT a 'cost.'"
LOL Amazing spin you have there, jsuati. Ok, there are five major categories of financial transactions: revenue, expense (cost), assets, liabilities, owners equity.
What category would you place taxes in? Assets?
If you are trying to say that I have refused to disclose my personal financial matters on a web blog, you are quite correct.I'm not asking for detailed personal financial matters, just a disclosure if you have a financial relationship with the AFT.
AG does have an impressive collection of posts ready to cut and paste from.
Yep, 4 or 5 years debating and looking up stuff via google for material all that time does tend to provide a lot of material on the hard disk.
It begs the question, who is feed him all the info.
Could also beg the question of who feeds you all your fantasies. Except bloviating without facts and data are is easy and can be done by any high-school dropout.
In the end, you and folks like you feed me the information. If you didn't demand answers to the obvious, I wouldn't perceive a need to go searching the internet to find documented information and answers.
FairTax have paid posters in the past to post on FreeRepublic.
Know how I can get some money out of them? Due to the efforts of you and others like you I have managed to build a rather large file base of information they might like to purchase. Better yet, I could leave this pastime of kibitzing with you, and go do research for someone else paying for it.
Haven't found a sucker yet, information is far to easily found on the internet for anyone to want to pay for it.
Just frame a decent google search and you've got enough to review pro and con about any subject you little heart may desire. The beauty of the internet is that solid information is available on any subject to be linked to and made accessible to anyone else who wishes to learn.
Of course OTOH, there are those who figure it to be sufficient to bloviate and expend hot air all day long. It is amazing how many folks there are who claim a total lack of fundamental training in a subject makes them an instant expert.
Kinda like expecting a brain surgeon to do a creditable job on ones household plumbing, because he claims to not have any experience or training in the trade.
For myself I always figured picking plumbers on that basis was a sure way of turning my basement into a swimming pool.
I think one paid poster in the past, Chief Negotiator is no longer with us. Coincidence maybe, or was it just an accident?
You might try arson/murder which is where the investigation of the fire that took his life stands.
I would suggest you end the adhominen track now, for you are building a strong reputation as a source of destructive innuendo and gossip rather than of any enlightenment as regards the actual subject of this thread.
I read your last reply. One word, ingenious.
Not ingenious, just fact. In 5 years of continuous study driven by debate with people like yourself, one can aquire and extensive knowledge base of any subject.
The more issues raised, the more extensive the collection of information and knowledge of a subject becomes.
I was initially lukewarm on the subject, but posts like your own and other opponents as well as supporters of the NRST and its various evolutions over time, have spurred a very wide ranging review of information available.
In fact the greater the intensity of the debate the greater the incentive to find and collect ever more knowledge and develop references and sources. Isn't it nice to know that even your efforts have contributed to a wider base of data and knowledge from which to operate in the future.
Keep it up, the incentive works wonders in helping to update and expand the knowledge base that is growing on my hard disk. Up to 500meg of source excerpts with hyperlink indexing organized in a hierarchial directory stucture and growing daily.
As I get through the debate results here, I use the information garnered and counter arguments developed to hit persuade others through out the internet, Congress Critters and those in positions to make decisions in government with. Passing on information and arguments to AFT volunteers and others engaged in the support of the Fair Tax legislation.
So be proud, you are contributing your share in the development of counter argument and promotion of the NRST, along with the whole gang of supporters and detractors alike.
Don't know what changing the wages of employees would have to do with increasing demand for the company's product
More money available allows one to buy more things. My wifes spending patterns are more than enough evidence of that truism.
Constant wage, but falling prices, allow a greater amount of product to be purchased, demand rising with availability of funds to increase standard of living.
Increasing wages and falling prices provide for an even greater market expansion.
or how a choice of increasing wages vs decreasing prices is relevant to anything I have said.
The response was to Your Nightmare, in regards to tax incidence commentary to you. It is my practice to address both persons engaged with a specific comment to which I frame a reply. For all except the first in the "To: field, its is a mere notice, not reply.
LOL Amazing spin you have there, jsuati. Ok, there are five major categories of financial transactions: revenue, expense (cost), assets, liabilities, owners equity.I believe currently due income taxes would be a liability and, actually, if a business has paid more taxes than it owes at the end of the year, it would be listed as an asset.
What category would you place taxes in? Assets?
Since you've admitted you don't understand it, why in the world should I wish to educate you??
I'll have to think about that.
Since you've admitted you don't understand it, why in the world should I wish to educate you??Do you usually limit your educating to people who already understand what you might teach them?
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