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Even Deep Discounts Can't Move SUVs
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | May 8, 2005 | Michael Taylor

Posted on 05/09/2005 6:52:14 AM PDT by MississippiMasterpiece

It's a Saturday morning on San Leandro's Marina Boulevard auto row, and the big SUVs have been sitting on the lots, waiting for someone to come in and start that dealer dollar dance that ends up with the customer slightly bewildered but paying a lot less for that vehicle than he thought he was going to.

Once in a while, there are takers, although the dealer has to discount the SUV heavily just to get it moving.

Salvador Sotello, for example, recently paid F.H. Dailey Chevrolet in San Leandro $41,000 for a new Chevy Tahoe LT (yes, with leather) SUV that had a sticker price of $58,000. The sale was an anomaly in what is otherwise a pretty dismal selling season. "It's been pretty quiet," saleswoman Crystal Gonzalez said the other day. "Been pretty slow."

At Broadway Ford in Oakland, the grilles of the Mustangs, SUVs and the lone Thunderbird smile at the passing traffic, but the showroom is empty, it appears, of customers; several salesmen are in sight. Up at Albany Ford-Subaru, salesman Myers Howard, sitting a few feet away from a big Ford pickup truck, says things on the Ford side of the showroom "are slow." That might be the understatement of the day.

Just this past week, General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. underwent the humiliation of seeing their credit ratings reduced by Standard & Poor's Ratings Services to the status of junk. The reasons are becoming clear -- the two big companies can't sell much of what they produce.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: autosales; suv
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To: Professional Engineer

I could buy a Sherman tank if I pleased. Should I have to do so to get decent vision on the road?


301 posted on 05/09/2005 2:01:43 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is a law.")
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To: Junior

"It was a statement of fact. LOS was blocked by the SUV. No one blamed him for the accident, least of all the Georgia State Patrol which investigated. I'm sorry if you felt the statement was an indictment."

It certainly appeared that you were making an indictment. After all, one could conclude from your statement that had the SUV not 'blocked the line of sight' then the accident would not have occured. I just found it curious that you would say the SUV 'caused' the accident when you obviously overlooked the fact that the driver of the other car was, by definition, going to fast and probably following too closely.


302 posted on 05/09/2005 2:07:11 PM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: Junior
No. I merely pointed out the SUV completely blocked the following driver's view of the road ahead, and that the SUV's driver changed lanes suddenly as he was right on top of the stalled vehicle, not giving the following driver any time to react

If that ever happens to you, you can tell their Insurance that the big bad SUV blocked your line of sight and that it was their fault. In fact, get a team of lawyers and press charges. Tell the Judge that the SUV blocked your sight and you couldn't avoid the accident. See what happpens.

303 posted on 05/09/2005 2:08:29 PM PDT by chudogg (www.chudogg.blogspot.com)
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To: chudogg

If it happened to me, I'd be as dead as the folks it did happen to, and I wouldn't have to worry about it.


304 posted on 05/09/2005 2:11:45 PM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: chudogg

They zip around cars here on the freeways. Maybe their thought is this: I have a bigger vehicle that you don't want to collide with therefore you'll let me have my way.


305 posted on 05/09/2005 2:16:55 PM PDT by Bella_Bru (www.JewsforJudaism.org)
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To: umgud

I think those elements are so ugly...I didn't realize they got such good gas mileage though.


306 posted on 05/09/2005 2:18:12 PM PDT by Hildy ( The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue)
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To: DugwayDuke
What I said was that if you were going to be driving something that big, you need to demonstrate the ability to operate it safely without being a menace on the road to everyone around you. I also stated that maybe that would mean you should have to have a commercial or cheaufer's license. I also stated that I felt it should be mandatory to demonstrate an ability to safely operate a vehicle regardless of what it was or how big it was. As examples, I included everything from a quad cab extended bed pick up truck down to a moped. Yet, you seem to feel I danced around the question and failed to answer it.

I understand they no longer teach reading comprehension in public schools, so the confusion is not entirely your fault. If you will please tell me what part of that you do not understand, I will make an attempt to break it down into small words for you.

Yes, I'm quite aware of what is involved in obtaining a commercial driver's license.

307 posted on 05/09/2005 2:18:25 PM PDT by JavaTheHutt ( Gun Control - The difference between Lexington Green and Tiennimen Square.)
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To: Junior

"Tragedy of the Commons" bump


308 posted on 05/09/2005 2:28:28 PM PDT by babble-on
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To: DugwayDuke; aruanan; Centurion2000; Xenalyte; ihv2bme; rdcorso; MamaB; Major_Risktaker; frgoff; ...

Hope I got everybody... sorry for the "mass" post but since I have pretty much the same thing to say to everyone on this topic, I might as well get all at once.

The case against SUVs:

1) A SUV involved in a crash will do twice the damage as an equivalent passenger car based on mass alone. By buying an SUV you double the crash risk of everyone else on the road. This has a real cost in human casualties - your fellow countrymen who die unnecessarily every day because of people who buy vehicles far too large for their needs. Every mistake by a SUV driver has twice the consequences. Add in that SUV bumpers are at a different height than car bumpers, and you remove a major protective measure in case of a crash.

2) Line of sight - this is a big one, and it affects nearly every aspect of driving. If you cannot see past or through another vehicle, the amount of information with which you have to anticipate its movements drops dramatically. Not only does this cause more accidents with the SUV itself, but also causes more accidents with vehicles whose sight is obscured. SUVs are basically moving blind spots for cars. Anyone who can't see why this is a major problem shouldn't have a drivers' license. Furthermore, even parked, these vehicles cause trouble for other drivers. If parked next to one, instead of being able to see whether other cars are coming, you basically have to pray that if anyone is coming, they see you - because there's no way in hell you will see them. If you've got SUVs parked on both sides of you, that's double trouble.

Those two are the major issues, and they boil down to more SUVs = more and more damaging vehicle accidents.

After that, there are many other issues, such as people who drive these vehicles as if they were passenger cars, when they are not the size nor maneuverability of passenger cars; people who use their SUVs as weapons; the fact that any given road can accommodate far fewer SUVs than passenger cars (with regard to not only mass but also to line of sight) and road maintenance issues.

Ascribing loathing of SUVs to things like jealousy and fear is a mistake. Having an SUV has substantial effects for other vehicles on the road, and IMHO one should be able to state clearly exactly what those effects are before ever being permitted to have a SUV.

Lastly, the freedom argument is pure arrogance at best. Your freedom to buy an unreasonably large vehicle comes at the cost of my freedom to travel in reasonable safety. I regard this as a theft of my liberty. With all freedom comes responsibility, and those who argue freedom as a reason to allow SUVs cannot but admit that the responsibility has not been shouldered by SUV drivers.


309 posted on 05/09/2005 2:30:26 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is a law.")
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To: thoughtomator
...an unreasonably large vehicle...

The anti-SUV types are usually petty tyrants who want to tell everyone else what they need and what they should be allowed to have.

Imagine this statement: "anyone injured solely because the SUV in their accident was too big was driving an unreasonably small and unreasonably unsafe vehicle. They should be required to buy bigger, safer cars."

310 posted on 05/09/2005 2:33:37 PM PDT by Petronski (Pope Benedict XVI: A German Shepherd on the Throne of Peter)
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To: Petronski

The passenger-car-size vehicles were on the roads first; indeed the roads are built to accommodate that size vehicle. The SUVs, being newcomers, must accommodate themselves to the existing situation rather than vice versa.


311 posted on 05/09/2005 2:35:43 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is a law.")
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To: Petronski
Safe is a relative term. SUVs are safer only in certain types of crashes. And FWIW, one of the reasons I drive a passenger car and not one of these behemoths is that I'm willing to take risks with my own life, but not someone else's.
312 posted on 05/09/2005 2:36:35 PM PDT by mewzilla
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To: speed_addiction

not really a discount...the rebate is a one time thing, the oil price will get you, over and over again.

"Especially if those deep discounts hit Texas."


313 posted on 05/09/2005 2:37:49 PM PDT by velyrorenry
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To: frgoff; thoughtomator
"6-7 SUVs in a row lined up at a stoplight, it's officially gotten ridiculous."

Why?

I have the same question.

314 posted on 05/09/2005 2:39:49 PM PDT by BJungNan (Check out http://echotalon.blogspot.com)
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To: thoughtomator
Because SUVs are not passenger cars.

That's not much of an explanation. And by my way of thinking, they are more of a passenger car than most other cars. They hold more passengers, hold more passengers more comfortably and transport those more passengers and more comfortable passengers more safely.

What about them makes them not a passenger car?

315 posted on 05/09/2005 2:43:03 PM PDT by BJungNan (Check out http://echotalon.blogspot.com)
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To: thoughtomator
The passenger-car-size vehicles were on the roads first; indeed the roads are built to accommodate that size vehicle.

I guess Fedex and UPS and Schwanns and Pepsi and Coke and so forth will have to conform themselves to your little social engineering experiment too. All of those can be delivered in smaller, car-sized vehicles too.

And school buses? Forget it.

316 posted on 05/09/2005 2:43:44 PM PDT by Petronski (Pope Benedict XVI: A German Shepherd on the Throne of Peter)
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To: mewzilla

After all, the anti-SUV crowd are so much more noble than the SUV owners.


317 posted on 05/09/2005 2:44:34 PM PDT by Petronski (Pope Benedict XVI: A German Shepherd on the Throne of Peter)
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To: Junior
You might have to worry about the legal ramifications passed on to your next of kin if anybody was injured in the accident that YOU caused. I see many others have jumped on this as well. Let me hammer this point home.

There is absolutely no scenario that can safely justify your vehicle for hitting something in front of you. Whether its your line of sight being blocked, weather conditions, some idiot slamming on the breaks for no reason, NOTHING! If a vehicle hits another vehicle or obstruction in the road it is 100% their fault without any other outside factors. Period.

I'm sorry that you know somebody who died from this. But the blame lies squarely on the person who was following too closely and did not give themself reaction time.

318 posted on 05/09/2005 2:47:39 PM PDT by chudogg (www.chudogg.blogspot.com)
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To: crv16

No, you're still wrong. I'm retired, I don't drive near as much as I used to. I use LESS gas now than I did before, so I'm not "helping to drive up gas costs" at all my friend, and I still will own, drive and enjoy my pickup, although (sigh) I don't have a gunrack...

No, we (Americans) are not the problem concerning fuel in this world, we are the solution, it's time to get the enviro-wackos off our backs, also, who has appointed them as the experts? BTW, I challenge everyone of them I come
across when they play their hand.

Being retired (I'm not IDLE you know, I do other things, look at my profile), I also encourage my grown kids (w/families) and other young people to seriously consider VOLUNTEER investment accounts with Pres. Bush's SS ideas. I've never seen so may people afraid to make money, obviously products of Socialistic teaching in schools.


319 posted on 05/09/2005 2:48:23 PM PDT by brushcop (Remember SFC David Salie, a gentle giant of a man KIA (2-14-05) Iraq fighting for their liberty.)
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To: thoughtomator

NO SH*T a LARGER SUV will do more damage in an accident with a SMALLER car!

I like my SUV, I feel safer driving it...if I could just get all of those F*CKING little cars to get out of my way!


320 posted on 05/09/2005 2:49:44 PM PDT by ihv2bme
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