Were any of your relatives slaughtered by the Nazis during the Holocaust? I wonder if the GI's standing in the midst of the horror (photo) would agree with your comment?
Posted on 05/04/2005 11:54:42 AM PDT by lizol
Perhaps she ought to phone phone Hutton and see if they can do lunch.
Boy Howdy I'm sure glad I'm not German.
I'm defensive enough as a white southerner.
Yeah, aren't you just fed up with these jews?!
Might (or might not) be reading too much into the posters comment. There are legitimate disagreements, though I can't remember a credible figure under the low 5 millions.
Well she seems just a bit too annoyed over Holocaust memorials, and her comment about the disputed 6 million figure got my back up.
Yeah, I expected the name-calling...express an idea or opinion that differs from the norm and you're now the equivalent of some Nazi hiding in Brazil.
However, for the record I am annoyed over Holocaust memorials. Now call me anti-Semitic.
No. It didn't. That's why "gays" were never persecuted by the Nazis. That they were is a recently invented media myth.
Anyone who was not considered the Aryan ideal was genetically imperfect and subject to being "culled" from the master race.
By and large, yes. But, "gays" were never considered "genetically imperfect." Jews were. But, such a simplistic explanation ignores the fact that communists and Jehovah's Witnesses were also exterminated by the Nazis.
BTW, there are those who would dispute the 6 million figure based on the population of Jews before and after the war.
Some revisionist historians do. The evidence they cite is lacking. Plus, the 6 million number is well documented by the Germans, who kept scrupulous records. The best historiocity maintains that the 6 million number is historical fact.
Washington DC has a big Holocaust museum - why, I don't know, since it didn't happen there.
Washington DC is a world city, with many from around the world travelling through. It is a perfect place for such a memorial.
Well I too am annoyed over Holocaust memorials and I have stated so many times, and no one on this forum would think of calling me anti-Semitic.
However the reasons that you give for disliking Holocaust memorials might give some folks the wrong impression.
Regards,
Mom of an IDF soldier
"Being gay had nothing to do with being political enemies.
No. It didn't. That's why "gays" were never persecuted by the Nazis. That they were is a recently invented media myth."
Perhaps you would be interested in the information I cut and pasted from:
http://www.holocaust.com.au/mm/nonjewish.htm
Homosexuals
The Nazis' persecution of homosexuals met with wide approval from the German population. Homosexuality had been classified as a criminal act in Germany for hundreds of years and the Nazis took ruthless action against those found 'guilty' of it. They saw homosexuality as a threat to German morality, military strength and the purity and procreation of the Aryan race.
In 1934 Nazis shot dead their own leader, Ernst Roehm, who was openly gay. A special criminal police force was created to fight homosexuality and in 1943 Himmler issued a secret order to execute all SS and police found to be gay or even guilty of "homosexual intent". From 1935 onwards the slightest sign of homosexual tendencies was punished. Waves of arrests and trials followed and between 1936 and 1939, 42 919 men were sentenced. Between 1941 and 1944 there were another 12 000 indictments and the military police convicted 7000 homosexual soldiers. In total, the number of males convicted of homosexuality is estimated to be 60 000.
As early as 1933 German homosexuals had been offered the alternatives of castration or being sent to a concentration camp. In the camps they were identified by pink triangles and condemned to hard labour. The policy was to separate and try to 're-educate' them, and if this failed, then to kill them. In attempts to 'cure them of their disease', many homosexuals were subjected to horrible pseudo-medical experiments, including chemical injections and operations. It has been estimated that the death rate of homosexuals in the camps was as high as 60%. Homosexual survivors were not compensated after the war, as their behaviour was still largely regarded by German society as perverted and illegal and their suffering therefore 'justified'.
"By and large, yes. But, "gays" were never considered "genetically imperfect." Jews were. But, such a simplistic explanation ignores the fact that communists and Jehovah's Witnesses were also exterminated by the Nazis."
Okay, if you're going to stick to the genetically imperfect theme in regard to gays (I guess that shoots the "they were born that way theory") then what about gypsies, the mentally retarded, the mentally ill, the physically deformed, epileptics, etc. who were also exterminated?
"Washington DC is a world city, with many from around the world travelling through. It is a perfect place for such a memorial."
Moreso than Berlin, Munich or other large cities in the country where the Holocaust actually occurred?
The Nazis' persecution of homosexuals met with wide approval from the German population.
Nonsense, Simply because there was no Nazis "persecution of homosexuals."
Homosexuality had been classified as a criminal act in Germany for hundreds of years and the Nazis took ruthless action against those found 'guilty' of it. They saw homosexuality as a threat to German morality, military strength and the purity and procreation of the Aryan race.
Absolute BS. The Nazi's position on homosexuality was one of total indifference. They never "saw homosexuality as a threat" to anything. Indeed many high-ranking Nazis were open homosexuals from the earliest days. Goebbels found them distasteful, but Hitler never gave one whit about the sexual proclivities of his subordinates.
In 1934 Nazis shot dead their own leader, Ernst Roehm, who was openly gay.
Note how the revisionists always play the Roehm card. Ernst Roehm was an open homosexual who also happened to be a superb soldier and a first-rate leader. He had forged the SA into a powerful force which made the German army nervous. After the Nazis assumed power in 1933, Roehm kept clamoring for a continuation of the "Revolution" and demanded power for himself and the SA,. He even publicly derided Hitler and stated that he (Roehm) should wield the real power in the Third Reich.
Hitler needed the backing of the army brass to consolidate his power. They demanded Hitler do something about Roehm and the threat of the SA (which Roehm had envisioned as competitor to the German army). Hitler's response was the Night of the Long Knives on June 29-30 1934. Roehm, along with much of the SA and many other political enemies, was murdered to placate the army.
His murder had nothing whatsoever to do with his homosexuality, which was common knowledge as early as 1923. In fact, homosexuality was rampant throughout the ranks of the SA, and it was completely ignored by the rest of the Party. No one cared.
A special criminal police force was created to fight homosexuality and in 1943 Himmler issued a secret order to execute all SS and police found to be gay or even guilty of "homosexual intent".
One of the prime duties of all SS men, besides protecting Hitler and killing people, was to produce as many babies for the Reich as possible. Traditional marriage was discouraged, to a degree, so the SS could impregnate as many "suitable" German women as possible. To that end, SS rules dictated that homosexual practice was to be stamped out within the ranks of the SS. Of course, it had nothing to do with any moral judgment concerning homosexuality, and everything to do with the fact that if the Aryan men were sexually satisfying one another they were not impregnating Aryan women. Masturbation was also discouraged, for the same reason.
From 1935 onwards the slightest sign of homosexual tendencies was punished.
Utter nonsense. The SA was a widely known hotbed of homosexual activity throught the 1930s.
Waves of arrests and trials followed and between 1936 and 1939, 42 919 men were sentenced. Between 1941 and 1944 there were another 12 000 indictments and the military police convicted 7000 homosexual soldiers. In total, the number of males convicted of homosexuality is estimated to be 60 000.
Note the lack of substantiation to these claims. Estimated? Estimated by who? Why, other left-wing revisionist historians, that's who. It was a common practice in Nazi courts to burden defendants with dozens of charges so as to taint them on the eyes of the people. The Nazis knew full well that the majority of Germans found homosexuality to be repugnant, so many "enemies of the Reich" were also labeled "homosexual" or "rapist" or "possible child molester" to further damage the reputation of the accused.
As early as 1933 German homosexuals had been offered the alternatives of castration or being sent to a concentration camp.
The only concentration camp in operation in 1933 was Dachau, and it was for the internment of communists and other enemies the Nazis had made during their quest for power. Old scores were settled as soon as the Nazis assumed power, and the SA went on a killing and torturing spree that lasted several months. Dachau was the repository for those enemies still alive. Many of those of the SA who were doing the killing and torturing were, in fact, homosexual, so it is completely irrational to say that homosexuals were putting homosexuals into a prison because of their homosexuality--yet that is the bizarre historicity of the revisionists.
It has been estimated that the death rate of homosexuals in the camps was as high as 60%.
Another made-up number. Estimated by who? Anyone can just make up a number and post it as fact.
Don't believe everything you read, especially in the area of history. Unfortunately, history has become so politicized that one must be very careful to review the evidence presented. One of the problems with history at the university level is that many colleges have shifted History into the "Social Sciences," along with political science, and such. History is not a "Social Science,' it is a humanity and belongs in the humanities curricula.
...then what about gypsies, the mentally retarded, the mentally ill, the physically deformed, epileptics, etc. who were also exterminated?
I do not understand the question. Yes, all of the above were murdered en masse by the Nazis. I did not deny that.
Moreso than Berlin, Munich or other large cities in the country where the Holocaust actually occurred?
Well, Washington DC is the capital of the world's only super power. Also, most countries where the Holocaust occurred already have turned old camps into museums.
And why are you annoyed over Holocaust Memorials?
You know, the information I quoted came from a Jewish web site on the Holocaust - and you're calling them left-wing revisionists? Amazing...
Trying to communicate with you is like spitting into the wind.
ping
All I am saying is that the Holocaust has become poiliticized by the gay lobby and their allies. The point is inarguable.
I have studied the Third Reich, Hitler and the Holocaust since 1973. Only in the past few years has the "homosexual persecution" by the Nazis even been addressed.
There is a certain macabre "me too" element to this. As if the victim status of being persecuted by the Nazis somehow translates into virtue and earned social acceptance.
Yes, even Jewish historians can be left-wing revisionists, as your quote above points out.
But, believe whatever you want.
"But, believe whatever you want."
Thanks, I feel so much better now that I have your approval to do so.
Were any of your relatives slaughtered by the Nazis during the Holocaust? I wonder if the GI's standing in the midst of the horror (photo) would agree with your comment?
Illustrations - wow.
Last time I checked, I still have the right to express my opinion and I don't feel that every town in America needs to have a Holocaust memorial.
Geez....your reaction to that photo is disappointing.
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