Posted on 05/02/2005 7:25:14 AM PDT by worldclass
Noting that in his Good Friday homily soon-to-be pope Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger condemned the "filth there is in the church," Wheeler believes the pontiff "will not tolerate [homosexuality's] presence in his church."
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
>>"Not having Altar Girls is a problem for some people. For me, the mother of girls, I see nothing wrong with it."<<
I'm sorry, I did not state my position clearly.
I should have said that while some people have problems with excluding girls from serving on the Altar, I have no problem with it.
I have Choir Girls. That is fine with me and my girls. Boys should be serving on the Altar.
Prosecuted first -- RCC has no business interfering in a police matter, and it seems like they have arrogated to themselves the authority to decide what happens to these "priests", heretics really. The church can decide whatever they want but if they interfere with an investigation or prosecution the bishop should be hauled up on conspiracy charges. Actually enforcing the law would go a long way toward putting an end to this crap.
Father C-rapi. Hahahah. hahahahaha.
My family (and many others I know, all with many girls in their families) refuses to attend Masses where altar girls flit around the sanctuary, ESPECIALLY when they reach puberty and beyond. It is a distraction, and one that is being made especially to adolescent males.
Anyway, this is the official document on "allowing" female altar servers.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWCOMM.HTM
1) Canon 230 #2 has a permissive and not a preceptive character: "Laici . . . possunt." Hence the permission given in this regard by some Bishops can in no way be considered as binding on other Bishops. In fact, it is the competence of each Bishop, in his diocese, after hearing the opinion of the Episcopal Conference, to make a prudential judgment on what to do, with a view to the ordered development of liturgical life in his own diocese.
2) The Holy See respects the decision adopted by certain Bishops for specific local reasons on the basis of the provisions of Canon 230 2. AT THE SAME TIME, HOWEVER, THE HOLY SEE WISHES TO RECALL THAT IT WILL ALWAYS BE VERY APPROPRIATE TO FOLLOW THE NOBLE TRADITION OF HAVING BOYS SERVE AT THE ALTAR. AS IS WELL KNOWN, THIS HAS LED TO A REASSURING DEVELOPMENT OF PRIESTLY VOCATIONS. Thus the obligation to support such groups of altar boys will always continue.
Your church would probably be dang near perfect if it wasn't for you.
DU?
Cheers,
CSG
Also, it's not so difficult to understand as you might think. You already know many of the words that are used over and over and over again -- Deus = God; Domine = Lord; Sanctus = Holy; Gloria = Self Explanatory, etc.
Also, if you are serious about the mass you have studied it and know the texts anyway, so it is not hard to understand when you hear it week after week at all. I wish I could make it to Latin Mass.
Maybe I was lucky, but the Jesuits who educated me were the most staunch conservative republican types I knew. Perhaps a purge of the order is in order? Or at least new leadership.
Cheers,
CSG
Bleh. The Anglican High Mass is fine but it would be better in Latin too.
The sign of the peace is supposed to be reflective of the fact that you're supposed to make peace with your brother before you take communion, so why do I have to shake hands with all these people I have no beef with? Because some liberal idiot thought it would be a good team-building exercise and now we all have to do it. It would be great if a fight broke out some time.
It's like the phoney "shake hands after the ballgame" thing they made us do when I was a kid and which they're now phasing out because it's phoney and some kids do a happy slap.
With five Masses to serve and hundreds of parishioners at each one (the sanctuary officially holds about 800 people, it is nearly full at 11:30, completely full and out the door at 10, about 3/4 full at 5:30 and maybe half at 8 and the Saturday Vigil), it is not practicable to bar girls completely.
And I haven't seen anybody "flitting" . . . Deacon Tom would have their heads on toast if they did (even the grownups treat Deacon Tom with kid gloves . . . he's very strict.) ALL our altar servers are dignified, reverent, and serious in the performance of their duties. Because of the definitely male-oriented structure of the altar server guild, the boys tend to predominate among the high school agers, and the girls that remain are willing and able to function as altar servers, not as "girls". And that is as it should be, because the boys have the first place as potential priests.
I think your concerns about post-pubertal flirtiness are unwarranted, at least in our parish. My daughter has a special devotion to St. Maria Goretti, and she doesn't "date" yet at 16 - just runs with a group of close friends both male and female. These are serious kids, concerned about their duty to God, their families, and their schools. I haven't seen the problems that you fear.
I am sure you are answering me in good conscience and sincerity.
And note that as a father of 10 children, five of whom are living, I cannot and will not make the accommodations to so-called "orthodox" and "conservative" bishops, priests and lay people cannot and will not understand the literal words of documents issued by the Holy See.
There was NEVER a need for altar girls for 1995 years of the Church. This "need" still does not exist. And in good concsience, the Novus Ordo will not hasten back Christendom. The Classical Roman rite, which Pope Benedict XVI will certainly free, will aid in this restoral of Christendom.
"I think your concerns about post-pubertal flirtiness are unwarranted, at least in our parish."
I certainly hope this is true. As a former 16-year-old male with a 20-year-old male son and a blossoming 15-year-old daughter, I believe I understand the inner workings of the male psyche and can evaluate what is happening better than a mother who thinks it is still OK to serve at the altar. Just my opinion of course...
And why is it that during the so-called "sign of PEACE" it is the loudest part of the Mass? at the sign of PEACE...
The oxymorons proliferate...
And what does my opinion (obedient, BTW, to my bishop and my pastor) have to do with my judgment? Again, if I agreed with you, there wouldn't be any discussion.
I think you're selling yourself (and your sons) short. Our older altar boys are looking seriously at vocations, do you think they have no self-control? And what kind of priests would they be, if they didn't? Our Altar Server Elite boys are like respected older brothers to all the little ones, they're a fine example for the boys and girls alike.
Our archbishop has kindly provided (and encouraged both spiritually and materially) a fine FSSP parish for those who are worried about female altar servers (and prefer Latin). The rector recently moved to Rome, but I'm sure his successor is following in his footsteps, and I'm sure you'd be perfectly happy there.
>> With five Masses to serve and hundreds of parishioners at each one (the sanctuary officially holds about 800 people, it is nearly full at 11:30, completely full and out the door at 10, about 3/4 full at 5:30 and maybe half at 8 and the Saturday Vigil), it is not practicable to bar girls completely.<<
Really? We have 750 families and a 7, 9:30, 11, 1:30, 6pm and 8pm Holy Masses on Sunday. 6am, 9am, noon, 4:30 and 7 on Saturdays. Only Boys serve.
How many Altar servers do you have at a mass? We have at least 10 during weekend Holy Masses, at least four at the weekday including the 6 am.
It is very easy to exclude the girls, if you make it clear that boys will not have to serve with them when they still think girls are "icky".
>>And I haven't seen anybody "flitting" . . .
I think your concerns about post-pubertal flirtiness are unwarranted, at least in our parish. ... I haven't seen the problems that you fear.<<
I'm so glad you don't have the problems, but I have seen it in both the parish I left and different churches in Cleveland. Nothing better than the shy giggles of a girl as her Altar mate smiles at her. Warms the cockles of my heart. NOT!
Not a single Altar girl will become a priest.
Let the boys be special, they can't give birth to the next generation of Catholics like the girls can!!
I got your point the second time around, netmilsmom, but admit that double negative almost got me! :-)
And, yes, Boys should be serving on the Altar.
"But you haven't observed it, since you say you won't attend where there are altar girls, how on earth do you know?"
My wife was an altar girl with a blue cape in the 1970s, 20 years before it was allowed. Our former "conservative" Novus Ordo parish actively recruited my daughter to serve. "No!" was the answer again, and we had to de-program again. I have been to way too many Masses in my lifetime with the girls prancing around the altar.
"I think you're selling yourself (and your sons) short. Our older altar boys are looking seriously at vocations, do you think they have no self-control? And what kind of priests would they be, if they didn't?"
It shouldn't even be an issue. It is disordered. It sends the wrong message. It is submliminal but powerful, both spiritually and otherwise. I am imagining no HORRIBLE CONSEQUENCES. I know that good looking females are often proximate occassions for sin to adolescent, and other, males. They have no business being in the sanctuary. None whatsoever. And you are not being "OBEDIENT" to your bishop and pastor. You can prudently choose a different route. There is no requirement to have your daughter serve at the altar. In fact, the document from the Holy See explains this exhaustively. This is an EXCEPTION to a norm, and is "allowed," but not mandated. Now, let's see how many dioceses have mandated them. All but 2 in the entire United States. All but 2.
Yes, horde all of these crazy "traditional" Catholics (I happen to be 41) out of the way of us "with it" Novus Ordoans. "I really don't understand what their objections to these 'little things' are anyway."
"Again, if I agreed with you, there wouldn't be any discussion."
This has nothing to do with agreeing with me. It has to do with reading the document from the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith in its entirety and not making an exception the rule. It has to do with no vocations to the priesthood in the West for 30 years. I wonder why. It has to do with 1995 years of immemorial custom being broken. Why? Are we so much better enlightened than our predecessors? In today's age of "enlightenment" which is really just societal pride?
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