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Liberal US catholics dismayed at choice of Pope
Reuters ^

Posted on 04/19/2005 5:13:20 PM PDT by Alex Marko

BOSTON (Reuters) - Liberal U.S. Catholics on Tuesday expressed dismay at the choice of a conservative new pope and doubted he will heal an institution racked by disillusionment and tarnished by a sex abuse scandal among the clergy.

The election of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger as Pope Benedict XVI rankled those who advocate married priests, a bigger role for women within the church and softening its policy on homosexuality, birth control, euthanasia and abortion.

Since taking over the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith as the Roman Catholic Church's chief ideologue, Ratzinger has denounced homosexuality and even branded other Christian churches as deficient.

"Gay and lesbian Catholics are going to be very hurt by this election because Cardinal Ratzinger was the lightning rod for so much of the anger they felt under the previous pope," said Francis DeBernardo, executive director of the New Ways Ministry, a national ministry for lesbian and gay Catholics.

Under the Pope John Paul II, American Catholics' attendance at weekly Mass declined as many were put off by what they saw as increasingly conservative Vatican doctrine.

The sense of alienation deepened with a well-publicized scandal over pedophile priests, which erupted in 2002 in the Archdiocese of Boston as court documents showed bishops shuttled pedophile priests from parish to parish.

Victims of sexual abuse by members of the clergy reacted skeptically to word that Ratzinger was the new pope.

"Ratzinger is a polarizing figure to many, who seems to prefer combativeness to compromise and compassion," Mary Grant of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests said in a statement. "It's ... crucial that the new pope follow the words and views of John Paul II who said 'there is no place in the priesthood for anyone who would harm the young."'

MORE OF THE SAME

Catholics for a Free Choice, a progressive group based in Washington, laid out an action plan for the new pontiff to pursue in his first 100 days with the goal of healing fractures within the church.

It urged the new pope to appoint a commission to review church policy on condoms, to establish a pontifical academy on women's rights in the church, and to welcome back those marginalized over the last quarter-century -- including gays and lesbians.

But those familiar with Ratzinger said to expect more of the same, and they doubted he would tailor his views to adapt to the liberal forces evident in the U.S. church.

"This is the guy who's been in charge of stifling dissent in the church," said lawyer Carmen Durso, who represented dozens of plaintiffs in clergy abuse lawsuits against the Boston archdiocese.

"This says to me that the Vatican ... is not prepared to move into the 21st Century, which it desperately needs to do," said Durso, who was raised Catholic but no longer practices.

Christine Schenk, a nun from Cleveland, Ohio, who favors opening the priesthood to married men, said she was disappointed and puzzled by Ratzinger's selection, but she saw glimmers of hope.

Schenk explained that Ratzinger had never ruled out the idea of married priests, and that the church is facing a deepening shortage of priests -- so he may be forced to act.

In a 2004 document, Ratzinger denounced "radical feminism" as undermining the family and natural differences between men and women.

Asked if there was anything in his background that gave her hope that Ratzinger would build a stronger partnership with women in the church, Quinn said: "We always hope for miracles".


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atheists; benedict; benedictxvi; catholic; cino; crybabies; gnashingofteeth; leftists; letthebashingbegin; liberalcatholics; liberals; pope; progressives; ratzinger; religiousleft; sodomites; sorelosers; wailing; weeping
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To: Alex Marko

Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, was raised Catholic but left the church in 1986 after former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger -- the new Pope Benedict XVI -- issued a letter to the bishops on the "pastoral care of homosexual persons." The letter described gays as "intrinsically disordered" and homosexuality as a "tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil."

"I think most of us who were gay and Catholic will never forget when Ratzinger's letter came out. It was so stunning in both its breadth and depth of condemnation," Foreman said. "The Cardinals have elected the most outspoken and venomous opponent of equal rights for gay people in the Catholic church's hierarchy." Around the country gays and lesbians responded to the news of the new pope with incredulity and concern, citing Ratzinger's history of speaking out against gay marriage and adoption and inclusion of gays in the Catholic church.

"My initial reaction as a gay, Catholic man is disbelief and sadness, almost depression," said Gino Ramos, the co-chair of the gay Catholic organization Dignity/San Francisco. "My heart sank when I heard the name Joseph, and I said, 'Oh my God, bless us all.' "

Local chapters of DignityUSA used to meet on church property, but after members publicly rejected the Vatican's 1986 letter, they were no longer welcome, said Sam Sinnett, the national president.

To this day, members meet at non-Catholic churches instead; Dignity/San Francisco, which has around 85 members, gathers at Seventh Avenue Presbyterian Church in the Sunset District. "After that letter was promulgated, we felt like we were in exile," Ramos said.

Maurice Healy, spokesperson for the Archdiocese of San Francisco, said, "We don't reject gay and lesbian people. They're part of the church as much as anyone else. But they're also called to the same teachings of the church as everyone else is called to." He was not able to immediately confirm the policy toward the organization Dignity in the Archdiocese of San Francisco.

Gay advocates pointed to several other occasions when Pope John Paul II publicly spoke out against homosexuality or gay rights -- and note that Ratzinger was the late pope's chief enforcer of doctrinal orthodoxy. A 1999 order submitted by Ratzinger and approved by the late former pope permanently barred Sister Jeannine Gramick and the Rev. Robert Nugent, who were based in Maryland at that time, from any pastoral work involving gays or lesbians. The two were sanctioned because they had failed to communicate the church's teachings regarding the "intrinsic evil of homosexual acts."

A 2003 Vatican document on legal recognition of same-sex unions signed by Ratzinger said that "the legalization of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil" and that allowing gays to adopt children would "actually mean doing violence to these children."

While the statements reflected the intent of the papacy, Sinnett said, "I don't think there's any question that they must reflect what he believes." Such language, he said, "makes it very difficult for people in good conscience who are looking for moral leadership to properly integrate their spirituality and their sexuality."

Foreman said he was concerned that gays and lesbians would face worse treatment by the Catholic Church under the new pope, but some gay Catholics said they held out hope that, in his new role, Pope Benedict XVI would have a different approach to the gay members of his flock.

"While I have grave concerns about it based on what he's written in the last 20 years, we're still going to keep praying to the Holy Spirit that his heart and mind will be opened," said gay Catholic Paul Riofski, 47, of Antioch. "We'll continue to pray for the Holy Spirit to grant him enlightenment about who we are."


261 posted on 04/19/2005 10:36:13 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: RobbyS
I am more worried by the fact that so many Catholics don't believe in the Real Presence

That Gallup poll has been debunked.

262 posted on 04/19/2005 10:36:45 PM PDT by sinkspur (If you want unconditional love with skin, and hair and a warm nose, get a shelter dog.)
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To: SuziQ

Back in the '50s, Bishop Sheen was scathing in his remarks about modern psychiatry and psychology, but there weere always those who disagreeed. In the '60s, som any clergy bought into the therapy stuff, even though it is moonshine.


263 posted on 04/19/2005 10:37:11 PM PDT by RobbyS (JMJ)
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To: PhilDragoo; MeekOneGOP; potlatch; All; LadyPilgrim; NYer
"And I say, anything which makes them unhappy must be good." Thank you"PhilDragoo"this is very good many persons do know truth many persons do not know truth truth is truth truth is good G-D!!!Good G-D do know time do know persons I am happy:}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}Benedictum XVI be strong good G-D help this new Papiez!!!Now this is for you all



















264 posted on 04/19/2005 10:37:13 PM PDT by anonymoussierra ("Et iube me venire ad te, ut cum Sanctis tuis laudem te in saecula saeculorum. Amen."Totus Tuus!!!!)
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To: Thorin

The Church in Europe has softened its teachings, giving into liberalism with winks and nudges, and we see the effect. No one takes them seriously.


265 posted on 04/19/2005 10:39:58 PM PDT by RobbyS (JMJ)
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To: PhilDragoo; potlatch; MeekOneGOP; ntnychik; Happy2BMe; Smartass


CNN poll:

Do you like the agenda of the new Pope?

61% - Catholics

19% - lib Catholics


Carl Bernstein wants the Pope to give out condums

Chuckie Schumer and Barbara Boxer and Carl Levin say they will vote not to confirm the Pope

GLAD is screaming.......

Certain other groups are calling him a NAZI anti-Semetic - saying he is Jerry Falwell's evil twin


More Catholics and voter of German ancestry will vote Republican now


266 posted on 04/19/2005 10:43:17 PM PDT by devolve (My WWII Tribute: http://pro.lookingat.us/WhiteCliffsOfDover.html - more traffic than DU-Koz-LDot -)
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To: sinkspur

Whgat abour the priests? I have heard priests who are less orthodox on the subject than Calvin.


267 posted on 04/19/2005 10:45:39 PM PDT by RobbyS (JMJ)
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To: potlatch
Kerry--I remember him. He was for killing babies before he was against it, or vice versa. He is for everything and nothing.

He believes our liberation of Iraq and stopping the slaughter of hundreds of thousands was as bad or worse than the slaughter we stopped.

He is part of the legion of the lost, the church of whatever, the order of tell any lie for power.

268 posted on 04/19/2005 10:50:51 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: devolve

John Kerry voted for the Pope before he voted against him.


269 posted on 04/19/2005 10:51:42 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: anonymoussierra
A weak shepherd would have a dead flock.

Benedict XVI is no weak shepherd.

270 posted on 04/19/2005 10:53:42 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: Alex Marko

Hmmmmm....

Let's see:

Abortion is still murder.

Priests will still celebrate the Mass. There will be no Prisetesses.

Divorce still rates as Excommunication

Homosexuality is still Sacrilige

Seems like nothing much has changed since Pope John Paul II. Nor shall it.

Can't see for the life of me why the Liberal and Cafeteria Catholics are PO'ed.

Jack.


271 posted on 04/19/2005 10:56:08 PM PDT by Jack Deth (Knight Errant and Disemboweler of the WFTD Thread)
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To: PhilDragoo

total truth good friend!!!!


272 posted on 04/19/2005 10:56:23 PM PDT by anonymoussierra ("Et iube me venire ad te, ut cum Sanctis tuis laudem te in saecula saeculorum. Amen."Totus Tuus!!!!)
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To: sinkspur
I was in the most conservative Catholic seminary in the country from 1969-1976, and celibacy was never mentioned. Anywhere. Any time.

*shakes head* What a FAILURE of spiritual direction. My b-i-l said that among his classmates, there hasn't been much of a problem with the guys; only a couple left the seminary, but are either deacons, or are still very faithful Catholics. NONE of them have been involved in any abuse of kids or teens.

I suspect a lot of the men who couldn't handle the celibacy part just were not given any spiritual formation in that most important subject.

273 posted on 04/19/2005 11:21:15 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: potlatch; PhilDragoo

"I wish I had written a more explicit letter to Sara than I did." You have had good friend you have had I do feel persons do not know truth truth is truth good G-D is good G-D one truth!!!!Thank you all


274 posted on 04/19/2005 11:22:02 PM PDT by anonymoussierra ("Et iube me venire ad te, ut cum Sanctis tuis laudem te in saecula saeculorum. Amen."Totus Tuus!!!!)
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To: BurbankKarl
"After that letter was promulgated, we felt like we were in exile," Ramos said.

You put yourself in exile, Mr. Ramos, because of your decision to be an activist for your lifestyle.

275 posted on 04/19/2005 11:24:24 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: RobbyS
The Church in Europe has softened its teachings, giving into liberalism with winks and nudges, and we see the effect. No one takes them seriously.

I believe this is why he chose the name Benedict. St. Benedict is the Patron Saint of Europe, and Benedict was a reformer. I believe Benedict XVI wants to re-evangelize Europe.

My b-i-l described Pope Benedict XVI as being a 'red-stater'. He's from an area of Bavaria where the Catholics are very faithful to the Church, and always have been.

276 posted on 04/19/2005 11:28:21 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: RobbyS
In the '60s, so many clergy bought into the therapy stuff, even though it is moonshine.

It was one of those turns toward Moderism that has proven to be a huge mistake for the Church.

277 posted on 04/19/2005 11:30:18 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Jack Deth
Divorce still rates as Excommunication

Nope, re-marriage after divorce without an annulment removes one from the Sacraments. Just getting a divorce does not do so.

278 posted on 04/19/2005 11:31:40 PM PDT by SuziQ
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Comment #279 Removed by Moderator

To: SuziQ

I stand corrected, SuziQ.

Jack.


280 posted on 04/20/2005 12:00:00 AM PDT by Jack Deth (Knight Errant and Disemboweler of the WFTD Thread)
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