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U.S. Gay Catholics Say 'No Sex' Doctrine Tough to Follow
Reuters ^ | April 7, 2005 | Adam Tanner

Posted on 04/07/2005 6:20:40 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Peter Novak has practiced Catholicism his whole life, starting as an altar boy and then studying for seven years toward becoming a priest.

Yet in recent months, the 39-year-old gay man, who did not complete his seminary studies, has been thinking about leaving the church because of the legacy of Pope John Paul's stance on homosexuality.

"It's not an easy life to do that, to want to maintain your identity as Catholic and gay," said Novak, who married his partner in San Francisco last year.

"The church came out very much opposed to gay marriage and I would say that was part of it," he said, explaining why he stopped going to Mass regularly more than a year ago. "It has challenged my ability to feel comfortable in the church."

Under Pope John Paul, the Vatican preached that gays should be treated with compassion but made clear it absolutely opposed gay sex and called homosexuality a disorder. The Pope referred to gay marriage as an "ideology of evil."

The Pope "would be very compassionate to the gay person," said Fr. Donald Cozzens, former president-rector of Saint Mary Catholic Seminary in Cleveland. Yet he would "require of them what he feels the Gospel requires of all of God's people, which is if you are not married, you do not have an active sexual life, whether within a committed relationship or not."

Many gay American Catholics ignore such teachings, as do heterosexuals who skirt church rules against birth control.

In areas such as San Francisco's Castro Street, a center of gay life, Catholic churches perform a delicate balancing act.

In front of the Most Holy Redeemer Church two blocks away, a billboard shows well-built male models urging gay men to telephone.

"We provide the teachings of the church with the understanding that people will make their own choices," said Michael Greenwell, a priest from the Carmelite Order.

GAY CATHOLICS AT PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH

DignityUSA, a group of gay Catholics, conducts its own services, often with former priests. After a 1986 Vatican letter denounced homosexuality as "an objective disorder," U.S. Catholic churches barred group meetings on their property.

So in San Francisco, Dignity meets weekly at a Presbyterian church.

Catholic teachings on homosexuality may not have changed much under John Paul, but his papacy coincided with the gay rights movements, AIDS and priest sex scandals highlighting issues related to homosexual clergymen.

The Pope also strongly opposed gay marriage, discussing it in his last annual address in January and calling it in his last book published in February "a new ideology of evil," which incensed many gays.

"The clock has been turned back during this papacy for gay people," said Jeff Stone, a DignityUSA member in New York.

In San Francisco, Catholics played key roles during last year's marriage of more than 4,000 same sex couples.

Mayor Gavin Newsom, a Catholic, ignited the issue by allowing the weddings until they were barred by the California Supreme Court. Then, just last month, a Catholic judge ruled California's ban on homosexual marriage unconstitutional.

Both traditionalists and reformers seem to agree the Vatican is unlikely to make changes toward gays under the next Pope.

"I don't think the teaching can or will change," said Mark Brumley, president of St. Ignatius Press, the largest U.S. Catholic publisher.

"Thanks to the legacy of John Paul II, we are going to see a much more energetic and persuasive presentation of the truth of that teaching about human sexuality," he said. "I think the next Pope will build on what John Paul II has done."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: catholicchurch; homosexualagenda; johnpaulii; sin
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To: ArrogantBustard; Nathan Zachary; Clint N. Suhks; Jimmyclyde
The one instruction in Lev. 18 that does specifically refer to women is a prohibition of bestiality.

Excellent point. I'm kicking myself for not pointing it out earlier.

Lev. 18:23 And thou shalt not lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith; neither shall any woman stand before a beast, to lie down thereto; it is perversion.

If the instructions in Leviticus 18 were not specifically directed towards the males, then there would be no reference to a woman in this phrase. Thus the only way to read this chapter that is consistent with the text is to understand that it is addressed to males only, other than the noted exception.

The lack of a similar stipulation with regards to the reference to male homosexuality in Lev. 18:22 indicates clearly that female homosexuality is not included in the list of commands for sexual morality. I conclude from this that lesbianism is not a mortal sin as is sodomy, that the two stand in distinctly different classes of behavior in the eyes of God.

181 posted on 04/07/2005 1:49:03 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("The Passion of the Opus" - 2 hours of a FReeper being crucified on his own self-pitying thread)
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To: Skywalk
Would you be comfortable with the concept of divine retribution in the form of natural consequences for evil behavior? That is, that the world is set up so that consequences naturally flow from behavior rather than requiring specific divine intervention in every instance? This is the non-literalist interpretation and the one I believe in, and it is consistent with everything I know about the Bible and Judaism.
182 posted on 04/07/2005 1:52:49 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("The Passion of the Opus" - 2 hours of a FReeper being crucified on his own self-pitying thread)
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To: expatguy
Yes I know.

They won't give up. They play stupid sometimes, hoping we are morons enough to see their games.

Like the homos I saw years ago (1992)back in San Diego CA on a tv show, outraged about the "church's position of the use of condoms!"

The nerve! :)
183 posted on 04/07/2005 2:09:42 PM PDT by ElPatriota (let's not forget, we are all still friends despite our differences)
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To: thoughtomator

Yes it does...Paul sayd something about women laying with women...I will get back to you on the quote, but it does!


184 posted on 04/07/2005 2:30:47 PM PDT by metalmanx2j (Eric Cartman: Democrats piss me off.)
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To: metalmanx2j

No need, I don't follow the NT, I'm Jewish. Thus I am not going to be influenced by Paul.


185 posted on 04/07/2005 2:46:04 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("The Passion of the Opus" - 2 hours of a FReeper being crucified on his own self-pitying thread)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Yet another pro-homo MSM anecdote story.

The "student" is quitting because he has realized that his chosen lifestyle will not be accomodated in the church and if anything he will most likely end up in jail.


186 posted on 04/07/2005 2:48:59 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: All
I'll expect to see this story in James Tarranto's Best of the Web under the heading "What would we do without Gay Catholics?"

Not for nothing, but it WAS in James Tarranto's Best of the Web. And I got credit in the thank you section at the end!

187 posted on 04/07/2005 6:12:38 PM PDT by Huck (Unauthorized mp3 file sharing is THEFT.)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

They had AIDS back then?

188 posted on 04/07/2005 6:17:48 PM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?")
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