Protestant Theologian: He Was My Pope, Too

christianity today ^ | 04.04.05 | Uwe Siemon-Netto

[Coleus]

For the last quarter of a century, this non-Catholic has had a pope. Now that John Paul II is gone, I am even more of an orphan than the Christians in the Roman church. For they will surely have another pope, but that one may not be mine, since I haven't converted.

I am sure I am reflecting the views of many Protestants. Who else but John Paul II gave voice to my faith and my values in 130 countries? Who else posited personal holiness and theological clarity against postmodern self-deception and egotism? Who else preached the gospel as tirelessly as this man?

What other clergyman played any comparable role in bringing down communism, a godless system? What other world leader—spiritual or secular—understood so profoundly how hollow and bankrupt the Soviet empire was, so much so that this tireless writer never bothered to pen an encyclical against Marxism-Leninism because he knew it was moribund?

Has there been a more powerful defender of the sanctity of life than this Pole, in whose pontificate nearly 40 million unborn babies wound up in trashcans and furnaces in the United States alone? What more fitting insight than John Paul II's definition of our culture as a culture of death—an insight that is now clearly sinking in, to wit the declining abortion rates in the United States?

In Europe some time ago, a debate occurred in Protestant churches: Should John Paul II be considered the world's spokesman for all of Christianity? This was an absurd question. Of course he spoke for all believers. Who else had such global appeal and credibility, even to non-Christians and non-believers?

Of course, there was the inveterate Billy Graham. There were many faithful Orthodox and Protestant bishops, pastors and evangelists.

[Conservative til I die]

It is because much Catholic doctrine is logically based. That's not meant to say that Protestant doctrine is by contrast illogical. What I mean is that,the Protestant often will say "Show me this in the Bible", where he wants to see a certain doctrine quite literally laid out on the page, such as "Jesus is God". Conversely, the Catholic Church will tend to logically deduce things from various bits of Scripture. This is where many of our "unique" doctrines such as Mary being ever-virgin and sinless, works vs. faith, the papacy, and purgatory come from. Also, we have Tradition to refer to which deals with things not specifically dealt with in the Bible.

[Aussie Dasher]

You need to understand that we don't worship Our Lady, either. We hold her in great esteem as Christ's mother.

[Conservative til I die]

Do you know any other insults than "stupid"? Just curious.

[Conservative til I die]

Then we will have to keep on arguing.

Unfortunately that's the way I guess it has to be. But again, what's the alternative? Oviously, neither of us (or anyone else) is just going to change our minds about what we believe to be eternal truths, just for the sake of peace.

Of course, we can ignore each other, which I am more than happy to do. I actually don't prostelytize to Protestants. I only respond when they go on the offensive against the Church.

[FreedomCalls]

Let me guess, this is now classified as "worship" too?

Only if you start asking for his dead body to pray for you, or start saying prayers to him, or start using any of the other trappings of worship.

[Quixotical]

BooYeeeooow

That was a nice response

[D Edmund Joaquin]

Well, now here is the confusion of the ages

just on this thread alone, we have been told that she is the Queen of Heaven and deny it if you will, the Pope JP2 said that "Redemption, if it comes at all, comes through her."

Do you not wonder that we are sceptical?

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

You need to return to the church that Jesus Christ started.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT. Wrong answer!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Along the lines of bad theology (it seems to be coming out of the woodwork lately from all sides) I heard a Catholic priest say "we can pray to Jesus, and if we need to, we can pray to God."

I bet if he had heard himself, he'd cringe. At least I hope he would.

[Conservative til I die]

So which other Protestant denominations do you not consider "fundamentalist"? I thought you saw all Protestants as flawed?

I do. It's a matter of degree, not kind. I tend to view Lutherans and Anglo-Catholics and some of the more conservative Anglican groups more favorably than say, the local Independent Fundamentalist Baptist types. The former at least are in the same ballpark as the Catholic Church and at least recognize some of the common history and tradition of Christendom prior to the Reformation. They also tend to "play nicely" with Catholics.

Fundamentalists often have no history behind their beliefs and basically just make things up according to their own personal whim. To me that's awfully arrogant and most Fundamentalists are waaaaaaay out of their league trying to interpret the Bible on their own without any qualifications (though in reality, most of them just regurgitate the awful swill found on polemical websites lock-stock-and-barrel without any real research on Christian history). Now, Baptists and evangelicals that don't antagonize the Church I have no beef with. I like Billy Graham a lot for this reason. He's a good man.

PS - I don't know if this was intentional, but you said I view all Protestants as flawed. I view Protestantism as flawed, not the people.

[FreedomCalls]

Also, we have Tradition to refer to which deals with things not specifically dealt with in the Bible.

Most of which was just "made up" in medieval times (such as the selling of indulgences) which is why we split off to begin with. We wanted to get rid of some of that excess non-Christian baggage. Why did you split from the Eastern Orthodox?

[Bear_Slayer]

Do you know any other insults than "stupid"?

That wasn't an insult, that was an accurate observation.

[wtc911]

Pray for US sinners, not Our sinners

Don't bother with the Catholic haters, their history in this country (with or without sheets) is too deep. Stick with what you know and let them do the same.

[Aussie Dasher]

She IS the Queen of Heaven. She is given that title as Christ's mother.

Her appearance at Fatima was an attempt to save us from ourselves. She cares for us as a mother cares for her children.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

Well, he wouldn't. A few years ago, I had a friend who was dying of lung caner. Her priest told her to "pick an angel and pray to it". Priests of the catholic church probably know less about Jesus and salvation than anyone else on earth.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

Now see, if you would read the Old Testament, you would know that Ishtar, the Babylonian Goddess was given the title "The Queen of Heaven". In the bible, it is not a good thing. It is a title associated with idol worship and with spiritual adultery.

[rwfromkansas]

Insightful point.

I think traditions here is referring to the teachings of the apostles and worship practices etc. I don't think this is saying tradition is great, as other verses talk about worship being vain if based on the traditions of men. I would have to do some more study though to see just what traditions means here.

[rwfromkansas]

Hence the I don't know. I won't assert something unless Scripture shows it to be true. Scripture doesn't assert she was sinless, so all this is speculation.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

ping to above

[DBeers]

ping to below.