Sundaland (GGG)

Personal Pages ^ | 3-31-2005

[ConservativeMind]

Interesting read.

[dangerdoc]

bump

[SueRae]

Thank you. I followed the link from another of your postings. Very interesting reading. I also believe that civilization is much older than currently acknowledged. The Sundaland read is compelling. And thanks to all for the additional links. I’ll have more to read (when I’m not at work...gotta run)

[SunkenCiv]

The Cuicuilco Pyramid in Mexico is another enigma. It was geologically dated to before 8,500 BC based upon the fact that it existed before the first volcanic eruption of Mount Xitli.

regarding that...

Gods, Graves, and Scholars: The Story of Archaeology
by C. W. Ceram

Now, several of these pyramids located at different sites from Tula to Monte Alban have been discussed, yet one of the most important has yet to be mentioned. This is the Pyramid of Cuicuilco, which stands on a mound 22.4 feet high, situated at the southern limits of Mexico City. The Pyramid of Cuicuilco rises up out of a weird landscape of darkly stony aspect. At one time the volcanoes Ajusco and Xitli (perhaps only the latter) erupted. The god within the pyramid was apparently remiss in diverting the glowing flood of lava that flowed about the pyramid, for half the structure was drowned in bubbling muck. The archaeologists investigating this phenomenon called on colleagues from another faculty, the geologists, for help. How old is the lava, they inquired. The geologists, not realizing that their answer was knocking a world picture awry, answered: "Eight thousand years." ...Yet late research is more inclined to consider it false.

[grey_whiskers]

Did Tolkien have a take on this (Numenor)?

Cheers!

[blam]

"In the books, Númenor was a huge island located in the Sundering Seas to the west of Middle-earth, the main setting of Tolkien's writings, and was accounted to be the greatest realm of Men. However, the inhabitants' cessation of the service to Eru Ilúvatar and rebellion against the Valar led to the downfall of the island and death of the majority of its population."

[Free Vulcan]

From the Akallabeth in the Silmarillion:

But these things come not into the tale of the Drowning of Numenor, of which now all is told. And even the name of that land perished, and Men spoke thereafter not of Elenna, nor of Andor the Gift that was taken away, nor of Numenore on the confines of the world, but the exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabeth the Downfallen, Atalante in the Eldarin tongue.'

He absolutely had that take.

[grey_whiskers]

I wondered if he did that as a reference to "Atlantis" by using his philological expertise to come up with a likely-sounding root word which might well have "weathered" over the years to become Atlantis. Thanks.

Cheers!

[SunkenCiv]

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[SunkenCiv]

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[afraidfortherepublic]

But a belief based on secret disappearing tablets read and interpreted by one man

No offensae intended toward anyone on this forum, but that reminds me of the origins of the LDS.

[aruanan]

The Pleistocene - also called Anthropozoic Era or Quaternary Era or even, the Ice Age. During the Pleistocene and, more exactly, during the glacial episodes that occur at intervals of about 20 thousand years, sea levels were about 330-500 feet below their present value.

If he's going to speak of the periodicity of glaciations of the current ice age, then he needs to measure them from the beginning of one glaciation to the end of the succeeding interglacial period, then he could have more accurately written about "glacial periods that occur over intervals of roughly 110,000 years during the current, Quarternary, ice age."

[aruanan]

There is also a universality of certain ancient symbols and customs which were to be found in various ancient lands such as Egypt, Burma, India, Japan, China, the South Sea Islands, Central and South America, as well as among the aboriginal tribes of North America. They were so identical that it seemed certain that they all came from only one source.

Or the artists throughout that time were depicting a common phenomenon (the link is to a PDF of the paper).

I also don't know how he overlooked the legend of the Seven Cities of Gold or the description of the origin of the Genesis flood as "all the great fountains of the deep were broken up" (after all, most people just think of 40 days and nights of rain--though the time spent in the ark was described as being over a year in length until the waters receded enough for them to come to ground), implying great tectonic activity with resulting vulcanism and huge storms as well as tsunamis as a result.

[aruanan]

You need access through a university server to get this but it looked interesting:

Special Paper 2: Maps of Pleistocene Sea Levels in Southeast Asia: Shorelines, River Systems and Time Durations
Harold K. Voris
Journal of Biogeography, 1153-1167, Vol. 27, No. 5, Sep., 2000

A table shows the percentages of time and number of years that sea level was below current level in intervals of 10 meters up to 120 meters for each of three periods of time: the past 17,000 years, the past 150,000 years, and the past 250,000 years, as well as the number of events that resulted in the lowering of the sea level to that particular depth. For the past 17,000 years, there was 1 event and the amount of time that sea level was lowered 120 meters below current level was 1000 years or 2% of the time, 100 meters, 4000 years or 24% of the time.

Here is an interesting part from the discussion section:

At 120m BPL (fig. 1a, C 17,000 yr BP), the bulk of the Sunda and Sahul shelves were largely exposed and formed massive lowland connections between present day islands in this regions and adjacent continents. Sumatra, Java and Borneo are connected by the exposed Sunda Shelf. If one considers new continuous shelf exposed south and east of the Isthmus of Kra, an additional 1.53 million sq km of land was annexed to Southeast Asia. This area is three-fouths the present day combined area of Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, the Malay Peninsula and Singapore (2.07 million sq km) (Webster's, 19980). At 120 m BL, the total newly connected area of the Sunda Shelf (in Sumatra, Java and Borneo) exceeded 3.2 million sq km, thus increasing the contiguous area of Indo-China by about 1.5 times. In addition, the islands of Hainan and Taiwan were connected to mainland China, and Sri Lanka was connect with India. Natuna Island and the other smaller island of today's South China Sea (e.g. Anambas Islands and Tambelan Archipelago) were a part of the exposed Sunda Shelf and likely offered some significant topographic relief. Although Borneo and Palawan were not connected by a land bridge at 17,000 yr BP, the Balabac Straits were reduced to a width of only about 12 km. Sulawesi remained separated from Borneo by a narrow but very deep ocean trench. To the east the exposed Sahul Shelf broadly connected Australia and New Guinea and surround the Aru Islands.

At 100m and 75m BPL (Fig. 1b, c, c. 15m000 and 13,000 yr BP), the configuration of the exposed Sunda and Sahul shelves remained very similar to the 120 m BPL arraangement and no major land connections were lost. At 75 m BLP (Fig. 1c), it is likely that one or more freshwater lakes or swamps existed at various times in depression where the Gulf of Siam is now located (Emery & Nino, 1963) and bottom cores taken off the east coast of the Malay Peninsula contained peat deposits indicating a Pleistocene peat swamp (Biswas, 1973). Furthermore, evidence of old coast lines support the presence of a brackish waster lake in the Gulf of Capentaria at about 60 m BPL (Torgensen et al,. 1985).

At 50 m BPL (Fig. 1d, c. 11,000 yr BP), extensive land bridges still connected the Malay Peninsula, Sumatra, Java and Borneo.

Freepmail me about this paper.

[blam]

Thanks. I’ll review it later.

[blam]

Map of Sundaland.

Click and drag.

Sundaland

[dfwgator]

Isn’t it near Newcastle?

[blam]

"Isn’t it near Newcastle?"

Nah.

I was just adding a map to this old article.

[abigkahuna]

In a fiction book I am writing Sundaland is the basis for Mu. Based upon my research, Mu was the “Mother” culture, much like Churchward’s work, that had spread outward, first west, then east. The culture spread east to the America’s and eventually centered in Atlantis, while another faction spread east through Burma into India and beyond to the Med and Europe.

In my story, it is a civil war, with Atlantis faction fighting the proto-Greek faction. The end of the ice age arrives with the original Mayans succumbing as well as Atlantis.

This is not the thrust of the story, but part of the back drop of the history of man. Mankind as we know him has been around for at least 180K
years. Before that, who knows. Well, we do know that other humans walked the planet, just not homo sapiens.

The end of the ice age is perplexing indeed. It was a process that began around 12875 b.c. and culminated with a major bang around 11600 bc, according to the geology and Plato. There are other events after, such as the Berkle Crater that might account for the events 8000 years ago. (Noah’s Flood)

North America specifically the United States was catastrophe central as the ice pack sitting along out northern regions and the whole of Canada created some fantastic flooding events when was instantly melted.

I am having problems with figuring out the process. Every story likes a dramatic scene and if the end of the ice age was a 1400 year event, it is not so dramatic as say an earth wide flood and volcanos and comets and the stars falling on one’s head, so I may have to take a bit of license and do away with the geology.

If I ever get this one finished, I will let you know. It is the third in a series of stories that actually features a young girl and her two-headed turtle. Don’t ask me how it all fits, but it does. And that very same two-headed turtle is sitting in their tank just feet away. Probably sleeping at this time of night.

[blam]

Ha, ha. This is a 12 year old thread. How did you find it?

Anyway, your story sounds interesting, let me know when you finish it.

Sundaland would have been a perfect place for humans to thrive through-out the whole Ice Age. There was a lot if 'shifting' going on (earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis and etc.) due the weight of the ice and then again as it melted and released the stress. The Tibetens have stories of mountain topping waves...those have an origin somewhere, eh?

Good luck.