Posted on 03/24/2005 8:34:24 AM PST by quidnunc
I have read this account previously, and in my opinion it supports, even helped form, my statement about the German orchestrating the Genocide.
I see the mention of Talaat Bey, Enver Pasha, von Wangenheim who was in it up to his eyeballs, but no Attaturk.
In Dr. Niepage's own words:
"Ta'alim el aleman' ('the teaching of the Germans') is the simple Turk's explanation to everyone who asks him about the originators of these measures.
"The educated Moslems are convinced that, even though the German nation discountenances such horrors, the German Government is taking no steps to put a stop to them, out of consideration for its Turkish Ally.
'snip'
"Mohammedans, too, of more sensitive feelings--Turks and Arabs alike--shake their heads in disapproval and do not conceal their tears when they see a convoy of exiles marching through the city, and Turkish soldiers using cudgels upon women in advanced pregnancy and upon dying people who can no longer drag themselves along. They cannot believe that their Government has ordered these atrocities, and they hold the Germans responsible for all such outrages, Germany being considered during the war as Turkey's school-master in everything. Even the mollahs in the mosques say that it was not the Sublime Porte but the German officers who ordered the ill-treatrnent and destruction of the Armenians.
"The things which have been passing here for months under everybody's eyes will certainly remain as a stain on Germany's shield in the memory of Orientals.
'snip'
"Even apart from our common duty as Christians, we Germans are under a special obligation to stop the complete extermination of the half-million Armenian Christians who still survive. We are Turkey's allies and, after the elimination of the French, English and Russians, we are the only foreigners who have any say in Turkish affairs. We may indignantly refute the lies of our enemies abroad, who say that the massacres have been organised by German Consuls. We shall not be able to dissipate the Turkish nation's conviction that the Armenian massacres were ordered by Germany, unless energetic steps are at last taken by German diplomatists and officers. And even if we cleared ourselves of everything but the one reproach that our timidity and weakness in dealing with our ally had prevented us from saving half a million women and children from slaughter or death by starvation, the image of the German War would be disfigured for all time in the mirror of history by a hideous feature."
Nonsense, you're engaging in nit-picking parsing and sophistry!
Words mean exactly what the majority of people understand them to mean.
Stop with the convolutions. We were origianlly discussing Turkey - Ataturky is a side issue. Since you bring it up again:
Ataturk perpetrated another genocide---Muslims can't get enough it appears.
900,000 deaths at least perpetrated by Mustafa Kemal "ataturk" netween 1918-1823
http://econ161.berkeley.edu/TCEH/Slouch_power4.html
Some democracy Turkey is...from
http://www.aina.org
(Assyrian website)
Amsterdam (AINA) -- The Turkish government is planning to sell 101 hectares of land in the Assyrian village of Bote, located in south-east Turkey. The land was confiscated in 2000, when more than 50 historical houses in Bote were destroyed, without permission from the Assyrians, and the Church of St. Mary converted into a mosque. The Assyrians have not been compensated for their houses and land and no explanation has been given by the Turkish government for the illegal confiscation of their properties. The Church of St. Mary still remains a mosque.
The/your/all dictionarys is/are WRONG on this word...
Democracy = (1)ALL democracy is Mob Rule.. Rule by Mobsters all mobbed up, voted in, by a Mob or Mobs by bribery, intimidation or guile through propaganda.. The stongest Mob or consortium of mobs rules.. i.e. Canada, England, URP, other places..
2) a variation of other kinds of mob rule.. like Theocracy, Monarchy, Oligarchy, and dictatorship etc. .. Its a dictatorship of the proletariat and is the social disease that produces socialism as a symptom.. Thats why Marx and Lenin liked democracy and saw democracy as the progenitor of Socialism..
(3) thats some of reasons why Democracy sucks.. there are many other reasons..
** NOTE The United States Republic is the ONLY government ever known in mankind's history NOT TO BE a government of Mob Rule.. until fairly recently.. Although Mobs have been assulting this government from day one.. and seem to have been successful lately.. so far..
You replied...
Nonsense, you're engaging in nit-picking parsing and sophistry!
Words mean exactly what the majority of people understand them to mean.
I reply..
Actually words mean exactly what a person hearing them ot speaking them WANT them to mean.. Viola!.. Semantics..
Mob rule is mob rule no matter the sophist definitions..
The U.S. Constitution OMITS three words on purpose.. 1) democracy.. 2) democratic.. and 3) democrat.. It was on purpose.. not an accident.. The founders knew full well that the word democracy was a dirty word.. you however do NOT.. Englands Monarchy was mob rule and England still has Mob Rule, different Mob (more or less).. Canada has always had mob rule..
The Italian Mobs "protection scam" is just democracys socialism on a smaller scale.. which no doubt they learned and adjusted too thats why you hear little of the Italian mafia these days(i.e. Americas Socialism).. Mafias know mob rule intimately.. thats why all democracys are run by mob rule.. like Mexicos democracy.. i.e. Venezuela, Peru, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay etc... The U.S. Senate was invented so that the House of Reps would not rule by Mob Rule.. Democracy exists to garner power to itself.. Thats WHY NO democracy ever existed anywhere at any time that was not a socialist government.. Make a democracy, you just made a socialist government..
You're blathering.
I think it's relative.
He goes on to describe Iraq as "the Arab world's first true democracy".
You're dithering..
Surely you can get over your hatred over the man who took Turkey away from Islamic fundamentalism.
Smyrna was a war. It was a retaking of the city of Izmir from Greece. The city was destroyed by fire.
If noting facts make me a cultist then ignoring them makes you a historian.
"the Arab world's first true democracy"
Hanson does say that doesn't he..but I think he conveniently (or out of ignorance) forgets Lebanon, where Arab Christians and Muslims have attempted to foster a democratically elected government for years before Iraq.
So many so-called "experts" confuse terms such as Arabs and Christians and Muslims etc. for example a devout Muslim (arab) will find it difficult to allow a Christian (arab or otherwise) the same freedoms and rights he has.
Your expertise revolves around falsifying historical fact and promoting an insanely brutish dictator who destroyed the lives of millions of Christians living in Asia Minor long before the Ottoman Muslims ever set foot there. "Dervish" somehow makes me wonder at your lack of "objectivity".
I suppose there is good to be said For Stalin too...Mustafa and Josef were buddies too.
It is no use arguing with the brainwashed...especially those who will go so far as to deny holocausts...in order to appease their Turkish friends.
I never denied a genocide during WWI. I denied Ataturk's role in the WWI genocide and genocide after the war in Smyrna.
I am not Turkish nor Muslim. Are you Armenian?
Have you ever read Bernard Lewis? He is not Turkish nor Muslim. Nevertheless he disputes many of the Armenian accounts. Many reputable historians dispute the numbers and accounts of the Armenian genocide with greater impartiality than Armenian advocacy groups.
I'm sorry if I have offended your personal sensitivities.
Wrong again. You cannot continue to deny the facts.
You need to offer yourself at least some variety in reading matter as well: Bernard Lewis is only one of many historians and no one historian can be trusted with the truth given the proclivity of historians lying, plagiarizing, taking money from organizations and nations, etc.
OK Here is some on CanavarTurk - aka Mustafa Kemal - role in the genocides.
Cilicia in 1919. The attack by Kemalist (aka mustafa kemal) units against the city of Marash in January 1920, is accompanied by large-scale slaughtering of the Armenians, and spells the beginning of the end for the remnant Armenian population.
The Armenians of Hajen (Hadjin) put up a last desperate fight for seven months only to be reduced by October 1920 to less than five hundred survivors who fled from a city completely torched by the besieging Turks.
When the French formally agreed to evacuate Cilicia in October 1921, the debacle signified a second deportation for the Armenians of the region. In the meantime, the Turkish Nationalist forces had gone to war against the Republic of Armenia. With secret instructions from the Ankara government (suported by Lenin and the Bolsheviks) to proceed with the physical elimination of Armenia, General Kiazim Karabekir seized half the territories of Armenia in November 1920 as Red Army units Sovietized the remaining areas.
Once again the Armenian population was driven out at the point of the sword with heavy casualties as the city of Kars and its surrounding region were annexed by Turkey.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.