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This story is getting widespread play across the U.S. - - Fox News, Boston Globe, NY Times, etc.
1 posted on 03/24/2005 7:17:33 AM PST by shroudie
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To: shroudie

I don't think its a "fake" per se. But they carbon dated the thing to the mid 1400s. Somebody left an impression in the shroud, but it wasn't Jesus.


2 posted on 03/24/2005 7:18:52 AM PST by timtoews5292004
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To: Swordmaker

I have also released a press release. This is how my release appeared in Forbes this morning:

Faking a Fake Shroud of Turin and Faking Out Television News

NEW YORK, March 24 /PRNewswire/ -- Over the years there have been numerous attempts to create images like those on the Shroud of Turin. Someone suggested that they might have been painted with lemon juice to create a reverse bleaching effect. Others have suggested that the images might have been formed by draping a cloth over a scorching hot statue, by painting them with pigment dust or by photographing a corpse using some unknown medieval photographic process. The latest such attempt to explain the images was recently proposed by Nathan Wilson, a 26-year-old English professor at New St. Andrews College in Moscow, Idaho. Wilson created an image by painting a picture on a pane of glass positioned over a piece of linen that he left in the sun for several days. The resulting image, caused by sun-bleaching away the background while leaving darker color where the painted picture on the glass masked out the sun, is called a shadow shroud. The image Wilson produced is similar in a few ways to the Shroud of Turin images.

ABC World News Tonight reported the story on March 22, 2005. In a segment entitled, "Shrouded in Mystery No More," anchor Peter Jennings stated, "The Shroud of Turin has mystified scientists for years. Now a literature professor from Idaho says he can prove it's a fake."

"I was amazed at the national television coverage," said shroud researcher Dan Porter in a letter to eighty Shroud of Turin researchers. "Neither Peter Jennings nor ABC's Bill Blakemore, who reported the story, seemed aware of any substantive facts about the shroud. It seems as though they did not do any research and did not consult any scientists to see if the shadow shroud made any sense. It does not."

Porter explains his rationale on the Shroud Story website at http://www.shroudstory.com.

Anthropologist William Meacham, a Research Fellow at the Centre of Asian Studies at the University of Hong Kong, added, "I would like to know how this unscientific idea could possibly get such major coverage, when it so clearly and obviously does not fit the known facts about the Shroud image."

The Shroud of Turin is a fourteen-foot-long cloth with front and back images of a man who appears to have been scourged and crucified. The shroud is kept in St. John the Baptist Cathedral in Turin, Italy.

In recent years the Shroud of Turin has been the subject of intense scientific investigation with numerous findings published in secular peer- reviewed scientific journals. Publishing in peer-reviewed journals is the normal way that scientists present their findings. From these findings three prominent facts emerge.

One fact is that that the outermost fibers on the cloth's thread are coated with a fine layer of starch and saccharides that is thinner than most bacteria. The images on the shroud are wholly contained within this layer as a caramel-like, conjugated double-bonds substance, a brown polymeric material that resists bleaching. The images can be removed with adhesive sampling tape. They can also be decolorized with strong reducing agents leaving clear color-free linen. Several scientists have published papers about this in scientific journals such as the Canadian Society of Forensic Science Journal, Analytica Chimica Acta and Melanoidins. The images are not unbleached linen as Wilson suggests. That is scientifically impossible. Photomicrographs available at http://www.shroudstory.com show the image substance.

Another fact is the presence of a faint second face image on the backside of the cloth. Researchers Giulio Fanti and Roberto Maggiolo of the University of Padua in Italy discovered this image using advanced image analysis techniques. Their scientific findings were published in the peer-reviewed scientific Journal of Optics on April 14, 2004. The two images, one on the front and one on the back directly behind the front image, are completely superficial.

There is no color between them. It is not possible, with sunshine, to bleach the insides of threads while leaving the outside surfaces unbleached.

Chemist Raymond Rogers, a Los Alamos National Laboratory Fellow, showed that the sample used for carbon-14 dating in 1988 was from a discrete newer repair patch that is chemically unlike the cloth of the Shroud of Turin. Moreover, Rogers found definitive chemical evidence that the Shroud of Turin is at least 1300 years old and possibly much older. Rogers published his findings in the peer-reviewed scientific journal Thermochimica Acta on January 21, 2005.

Flat pane glass suitable for the shadow shroud technique did not exist 1300 years ago, or even six hundred years ago.

"These facts alone prove that Wilson's shadow shroud idea is without any merit," said Porter. "I found it interesting that ABC's Blakemore said that no one could explain how medieval artists could make such an image until literature professor Wilson figured out how. I wonder how many times similar words have been used to describe each of the other failed attempts. Frankly, no one knows how the images were formed, but it wasn't by reverse bleaching in the sunshine. That just will not work."

Commenting on Wilson's theory, Barrie Schwortz, who has studied the shroud since 1978, said, "I have pointed out so many times in the past, any attempt to duplicate the Shroud image must match all of the chemical and physical properties of the image. This result does not. In fact, it gives no explanation for the forensically accurate bloodstains found on the Shroud which, according to forensic experts like Dr. Fred Zugibe, are the result of direct contact between a body and a cloth."

Photographs and a list of peer-reviewed journal articles: http://www.shroudstory.com.


4 posted on 03/24/2005 7:19:43 AM PST by shroudie (http://www.shroudstory.com)
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To: shroudie
Ah, yes, the 6 foot panes of glass ~ actually, more like 20 foot panes of glass, produced in the Middle Ages ~ we all recall that this advanced manufacturing process set off massive industrialization that culminated in the great Clone War of 1701 where the Borgs and all wheeled vehicles were destroyed.

(The theory breaks down with those huge pieces of glass).

6 posted on 03/24/2005 7:22:20 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: shroudie
I may not have theological training, scientific, or archaeological training and no I have never seen the shroud of Turon, and only watched half of that history channel presentation.

But I have to say I agree with this English teacher!

And so does my florist and pharmasist!

(sarcasm)
8 posted on 03/24/2005 7:23:49 AM PST by LauraleeBraswell ( CONSERVATIVE FIRST-Republican second.)
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To: shroudie
Just because you can theorize a way that something could be accomplished, doesn't mean it happened that way.
13 posted on 03/24/2005 7:26:24 AM PST by The_Victor (Calvin: "Do tigers wear pajamas?", Hobbes: "Truth is we never take them off.")
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To: shroudie

Interesting. I'm a devout Catholic, and frankly, the Shroud matters not if it's real or fake. It would be a wonderful gift of God if this is indeed the real McCoy, but this theory is thought-provoking at best.

The "novelization" of this theory, however, sounds a little too much like "DaVinci Code II"...


14 posted on 03/24/2005 7:26:50 AM PST by Rutles4Ever (Warning: may eat own)
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To: shroudie
Interesting for the 21st Century, but why woul a MEDIEVAL painter go through the bother? They would have painted directly on the linen and the public would have accepted it!

The need to "fake" it would have existed for THEIR time only and NOT to fool the scientific and technical advance of 1000+ years later.

Yes, the experiment worked, because those doing the experiment understood the concept of "Negative"....chances are, the Medieval Artists DIDN'T.

Even if this was done as late as 500 years ago, as I believe one carbon date said, Why would the artist try to trick technology that didn't exist?

15 posted on 03/24/2005 7:27:17 AM PST by Former Dodger ("The high-minded man must care more for the truth than for what people think." --Aristotle)
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To: shroudie
The first thing to demonstrate is how old the linen cloth is.
17 posted on 03/24/2005 7:27:30 AM PST by Mamzelle (and how do you like your blue-eyed boy, mr. death?)
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To: shroudie
Shroud not real? Gosh, ya think?

Someone painted it many centuries ago.

Don't worship idols, such as burial cloth or other physical remnants.

21 posted on 03/24/2005 7:29:41 AM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: shroudie

The important point is that Jesus is real and the Bible is true.


25 posted on 03/24/2005 7:32:23 AM PST by bmwcyle (Washington DC RINO Hunting Guide)
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To: shroudie

I heard Mother Angelica and a guest from a shroud study "committee" discussing the shroud a few years ago on EWTN. As I remember, the guest was Jewish. He was totally convinced that the shroud was authentic and probably made from a tablecloth -- perhaps used at the last Supper. He showed stains along the edges that appeared to have been made by cups of wine from the 12 desciples. I've never heard anything else about this. He conjectured that the cloth could have been provided by Joseph of Arithamea because it would have been a very costly article. What do you know?


27 posted on 03/24/2005 7:35:23 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: shroudie
First--though I do not think it likely that this garment is an authentic relic from the Crucifixion, I do admit that this shroud has always fascinated me.

I think the key to the analysis is usually not discussed. Before worrying about the image, I'd want to know a lot more about the cloth. Does it compare to other pieces of linen from the Holy Land of this era? As linen does not decay like silk, wool, or cotton, there should be contemporaneous artifacts for comparison.

First, how wide is this cloth? If it is wider than, say 36", that is difficult for a loom in the Holy Land to manage. Is it double-woven (this is a way to doublt the width of a fabric by essentially weaving it folded on the loom. It leaves an unmistakable mark in the center.

Does it compare more easily with woven fabric from 14th Cent Italy?

How about the linen fibers? There's a wealth of info just in the flax--type, spinning, tow, line?

You need textile experts from museums--and experienced weavers and spinners.

If it's 14th century--that should be easy to establish.

29 posted on 03/24/2005 7:37:19 AM PST by Mamzelle (and how do you like your blue-eyed boy, mr. death?)
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To: shroudie; newgeezer

You have to be an RC to be into that kind of thing.


30 posted on 03/24/2005 7:38:02 AM PST by biblewonk (Neither was the man created for woman but the woman for the man.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Bellflower; Buggman; HiTech RedNeck; Citizen Tom Paine; curmudgeonII; Don Joe; ...

Shroud of Turin is Fake report - PING!

NOT!

If you want on or off the Shroud of Turin Ping List, Freepmail me.


31 posted on 03/24/2005 7:40:23 AM PST by Swordmaker
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To: shroudie

Why is this story and many like it not placed in the Religion Section where it belongs? To imagine it being breaking news or a real news story is not, IMHO, credible. Everything in the piece appears to be mere speculation.


32 posted on 03/24/2005 7:41:54 AM PST by Paulus Invictus
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To: shroudie
Nathan Wilson is an English teacher with no scientific training,, but he thinks he knows how the piece of linen revered by many as Jesus' burial cloth was made.

Hey, why not? An high school teacher with no knowledge of Catholicism has a best-selling book called "The DaVinci Code." You can sell any anti-Catholic crap these days.

42 posted on 03/24/2005 8:13:29 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: shroudie

I must be tired I thought this said Lake Erie was a fake.


45 posted on 03/24/2005 8:22:36 AM PST by CzarNicky (The problem with bad ideas is that they seemed like good ideas at the time.)
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To: shroudie

That can't be right. I heard they discovered a "33 AD" label on the Shroud, in perfectly clear 12-point Times Roman.


50 posted on 03/24/2005 8:35:10 AM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: shroudie
it's funny how a piece of cloth just scares the sh!t out of them...
55 posted on 03/24/2005 8:43:30 AM PST by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
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To: shroudie

I read an article in "Popular Photography" about 20 years ago in which a photographer, using chemicals and techniques known since ancient times, created a "Shroud of Elvis."


57 posted on 03/24/2005 8:45:29 AM PST by Alouette (Learned Mother of Zion)
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