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Iwo Jima - A stupid Mistake?
LA TImes ^ | March 10, 2005 | Max Boot

Posted on 03/10/2005 7:10:45 AM PST by rcocean

Our awe at the bravery of the Marines and their Japanese adversaries should not cause us to overlook the stupidity that forced them into this unnecessary meat grinder. Selective memories of World War II, which record only inspiring deeds and block out all waste and folly, create an impossible standard of perfection against which to judge contemporary conflicts.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Japan
KEYWORDS: hateamericafilth; hatingamerica; history; iwojima; latimesbullshit; marinecorps; marines; maxboot; usmc; veterans; wwii
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To: rcocean

Hindsight is better that foresight by a damnsight.


81 posted on 03/10/2005 7:52:51 AM PST by PeterPrinciple (seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: F16Fighter; AFPhys; Conspiracy Guy; CholeraJoe
Not true!

More American lives were saved (US airmen landing on Iwo AFTER their planes were shot over Japan) BECAUSE we attacked that island than were lost taking it.

Plus, the three airfields on Iwo were staging areas for additional attacks AGAINST US planes coming back from Japan. Not entirely effective attacks (not as effective as the British fighters at Malta, where that single British island was the key to the central Med supply lines against Rommel, but damaging none-the less.

In fact, damaged aircraft were landing on Iwo even before the fighting stopped!
82 posted on 03/10/2005 7:57:53 AM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Michael.SF.

Not completely.

Most of the Pearl Harbor oil tanks were exposed to air attack.


83 posted on 03/10/2005 7:59:33 AM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: RaceBannon
"What an idiot, they said that about every Island..."

This writer certainly doesn't know his history. Practically every war has had this type of scenario. During the Civil War, one such incident was Morris Island and Fort Wagner. Union gun ships had bombarded Morris Island and Wagner repeatedly, in an attempt to prepare for an assault. Thinking that their heavy bombardment had depleted the number of Confederates inside the fort, the Union forces stormed Fort Wagner on three separate occasions during July, 1863. Each time they suffered high losses, and never captured the fort. Union forces then turned to digging trenches in an attempt to gain control of Wagner. After a lengthy siege, Confederates evacuated the fort on or about the evening of September 6th, leaving the island in the possession of Northern forces.

84 posted on 03/10/2005 8:01:03 AM PST by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway~~John Wayne)
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To: Pyro7480

Exactly. That was all that was needed to make action there necessary and right.


85 posted on 03/10/2005 8:01:19 AM PST by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
More American lives were saved (US airmen landing on Iwo AFTER their planes were shot over Japan) BECAUSE we attacked that island than were lost taking it.

Sorry. This is often repeated but it's simply doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

It assumes every single crewman on every B-29 that landed on Iwo would have otherwise died, which is absurd. Many of those B-29s probably would have made it back to base. Even ones that ditched would have had the crewmen rescued in most cases.

86 posted on 03/10/2005 8:02:27 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: IGOTMINE
Good morning.

Is "Dinah Might" the stricken B-29 that landed on Iwo while the battle still raged? I'm certain that crew would disagree with Max and the individual who did the research the article is based on.

Michael Frazier
87 posted on 03/10/2005 8:05:50 AM PST by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: rcocean

Though one could argue the tactical balance of Iwo Jima, the stategic value was that we would do what was needed to win the war. After Iwo Jima, it was clear that no one was ever going to stop the US Marines. Our enemies knew that.

As in the American Civil war, when one side decided that they wanted to win (aka Lincoln, Grant, Sherman) and were willing to do what it takes, the war was over.

Liberals should learn that on the War on Terror. Men die because our enemies doubt that we will do what it takes. If it was 100% clear from day 1 that we would slaughter them all and spend our entire treasury to win, they would give in and live in peace. Our enemy knows they cannot defeat us militarily. Their only hope are our weak brothers. Though we can't lock them away as we should, we should shame them every moment of the day as the weak humans they are.

Analyze Iwo Jima as you wish and if we have to island hop again, we will know better. But, the real contemporary lesson of Iwo Jima is what it costs to win. Why not learn that lesson?


88 posted on 03/10/2005 8:08:16 AM PST by Joe_October (Saddam supported Terrorists. Al Qaeda are Terrorists. I can't find the link.)
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To: rcocean

If this guy wants to write about bad judgement and mistakes, he should consider reporting on the Canadian government's sending untrained soldiers to the front in Holland (Sheldt Estuary) in the fall of 1944. Thousands were killed, wounded and taken prisoner because they lacked the proper infantry training. Many had only been in the service for a month or less before being shipped off to fight the Germans. A good number of them didn't even know how to fire their weapons or how to use grenades.


89 posted on 03/10/2005 8:09:06 AM PST by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway~~John Wayne)
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To: brazzaville

It is.


90 posted on 03/10/2005 8:09:12 AM PST by IGOTMINE (Front Sight. Press. Follow Through. It's a way of life.)
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To: rcocean

In Europe: Omaha Beach was an avoidable disaster, the Normandy hedgerows were a suprise, B-17s killed hundreds of GIs in Operation Cobra, the Falaise Gap allowed the German 7th Army to escape, the Sherman tank was inadequate, etc., etc.

Wars are difficult, criticism is easy.


91 posted on 03/10/2005 8:09:39 AM PST by aculeus (Ceci n'est pas une tag line.)
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To: Strategerist

OK, let's play your "auumptions" game:

The field commanders (not even Truman!) knew we had the bomb, nor did ANYBODY knoew (in Feb '45) know if it would work, could work, or could be built.

So, with enemy airfields on IWO behind the fleet's back as they tried to land on the homeislands, why do you think that Iwo could be ignored.

How long would the air bombardment last?

Of 2400 airplanes that landed on Iwo because they were damaged/shot up, are you going to assume 80% could KEEP FLYING home? That 10% could keep flying another 5 hours to the Mariana Islands?

If 90% of those 2400 aircraft would crash (putting 21000 airmen in the water): Could even 50% have been rescued? What would happen to the bombing campaign/the mining campaign if we LOST 21,000 trained pilots and crew?


92 posted on 03/10/2005 8:10:20 AM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: mass55th

Actually a bigger example is the entire Italian Campaign; basically a waste. Easily defensible terrain that tied down only a tiny force of Germans.

Theater definitely should have been shut down after Italy surrendered, and a case can be made that the Italian mainland shouldn't have been invaded in the first place.

I also strongly believe France should have been invaded in 1943 but that's a a pretty controversial one.....


93 posted on 03/10/2005 8:11:16 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: SZonian
From what I've studied, the Marines encountered a Japanese army that had their backs against the wall so to speak, and it was the first "real" exposure to the fanaticism of the Japanese soldier.

The Marines encountered this kind of fanaticism long before Iwo Jima. For example, only 17 Japanese surrendered on Tarawa from a defending force of about 2,000. More casualties were suffered on Tarawa per square mile than anyplace else anywhere in World War II.

94 posted on 03/10/2005 8:12:10 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg (We all follow Man United. Even when they mess up.)
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To: metesky
Good morning.

This reminds me of the academic idiot at the Enola Gay exhibit at the Smithsonian who stated that the invasion of Japan would have "only" cost thirty thousand or so American lives.

Michael Frazier
95 posted on 03/10/2005 8:13:05 AM PST by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Of 2400 airplanes that landed on Iwo because they were damaged/shot up,

According to the Naval Proceedings article that the LA Times article is based on, even the figure above is bogus; most of those landings were for training or refueling or rearming, not because of damage.

96 posted on 03/10/2005 8:13:38 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

I kinda liked the liberation of the Philippines. My mother and father were freed from Los Banos the same day the flag was raised on Suribachi. Two weeks earlier my grandfather and uncle were liberated from Bilibid and my grandmother, aunt, uncle, and cousin were liberated from Santo Tomas.

I say "Thanks Doug!"


97 posted on 03/10/2005 8:14:35 AM PST by Andyman (The world should not be ruled by those who are most easily offended.)
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To: brazzaville
This reminds me of the academic idiot at the Enola Gay exhibit at the Smithsonian who stated that the invasion of Japan would have "only" cost thirty thousand or so American lives.

That's an obviously too low figure, but the "1 million US dead" figure from an invasion is equally bogus.

98 posted on 03/10/2005 8:15:04 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
The tanks above ground are both storage and transfer tanks, and are relatively small in volume compared to the cavern storage facilities, which are enormous. But that is today, it may have been different in WWII, that I am not sure of.

I have sold equipment that is used for those underground facilities and until I did, I was unaware that they even existed.

99 posted on 03/10/2005 8:16:19 AM PST by Michael.SF. (Someday I will fondly look back on the day Hillary's career ended. Starting tomorrow, I hope.)
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To: rcocean
During the month long battle, the first damaged air force bomber returned and crash landed on one of the barely secured airstrips and the crew got out safely. Marines right then and there knew that their sacrifice was saving American lives already.

This author either hates-America or is one of those people who thoughtlessly enjoys his freedoms won by men of greater courage. Or both.

100 posted on 03/10/2005 8:16:46 AM PST by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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