Posted on 03/08/2005 9:20:44 AM PST by n-tres-ted
Our tax code is a mess for a reason. Special interests pay for special favors. And with 17,000 pages and counting, there's plenty of places for our politicians to hide the kickbacks. Meanwhile, all the exemptions, deductions, exceptions and special provisions reduce the tax base, which means higher tax rates and smaller incentives for individuals and companies to produce income. And whether the tax breaks are set in fine print or spelled out in bold type, they generally favor the rich, making our tax system less progressive than is generally believed.
No tax system is perfect, but ours is so awful that fundamental reform is the only option. Fundamental reform is not just a necessity; it's also an opportunity to stop taxing income and start taxing consumption. My colleagues and I have been studying income and consumption taxation via computer simulations for some time now. We've found that switching from taxing wage and capital income to taxing consumption can significantly improve economic efficiency and growth. What's more, it can make our tax system much more progressive and generationally equitable.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
What percentage of used homes/buildings are abandoned with this big market drive to purchase new construction? Would the population just stop expanding?
yet. there is nothing that prohibits them either.
All of our lives are at stake, or at least the part that goes to earning income. The fact that someone has the power to point a gun in my face and tell me how much of my life they will steal from me is deadly serious. I'll ask one more time (not just to you camle):
By what right?
i don;t think that they can without facing shareholder lawsuits of the class action variety. they have a fiduciary responsibility to them, not to their consumers.
Retailers are compensated for collecting this tax. Everything is taxed, nothing is exempted....so this will not be difficult to implement. MOREOVER, you need to look at the net burden to retailers. Under the FairTax plan, retailers will no longer have to comply with the internal revenue code....on net, they will be better off.
Thank you M'lady :)
"You don't have any idea how the proposal would work. I would suggest suspending judgment until you become more informed."
"but whilst we're trading illusions about intelligence, might I suggest you study economics?"
I didn't question your intelligence, I questioned your understanding of the proposal. I did not suggest that you aren't intelligent to comprehend it, just that you had not invested the time to do so. I have found in my life that almost every time I make a judgement without gathering the necessary information, I have erred.
I'm certainly no economist, but I think that I have demonstrated a grasp of that subject that is at least the equal of those on here who staunchly defend the status quo.
Fortunately, the FairTax was developed by a group of professional economists whose grasp of the field far exceeds mine.
Not true. The Fair Tax will completely "untax" the poor by eliminating payroll taxes. The poor will pay no taxes until they spend amounts above the poverty line. That makes the Fair Tax more progressive than the present system.
you see? ,my version of the Flat Tax treats ALL income as income. ALL income is taxed regardless of source. whether i's capital gains, returns on investments, wages, whatever. This is where Forbes and I part ways. One's entire portfolio is taxed at the same rate as is the income of everybody else. no loopholes, no exceptions.
Naw...like junkies, you have to deny them their fix.
And I would say...the more they get the more they spend....
Well wait a minute...it's REALLY the more they get, the more they OVER spend..!! LOL!!
They ain't never gonna reduce spending....if we keep giving it to them.
Actually, global tax harmonization requires a complex tracking and reporting mechanism. The FairTax is the only system which dismantles the tracking and reporting systems such that the globalist fantasy of international tax harmonization will be thwarted. You are once again, WRONG!
"i doubt that indubitibly, my friend. no corporation faced with a 20-30 percent windfall is going to ignore it's fiduciary responsibility to it's shareholders and pass that blindly on the consumers. in fact, I doubt that there will be ANY price reductions. what there WILL be is dividend increases, profit taking, and stock rising. the rich will benifit, the middle class will get little if anything."
I never expected you to be so full of envy and so aggressive in holding the class warfare line.
The automotive industry is so tight and every .1% point of market share means a lot to the manufactures, so yes as costs decrease these cost savings are either passed along to consumers or used to upgrade the vehicles. The advantage is the artificial competitive edge given to foriegn producers would no longer exist. The burden would be placed on both a Toyota and a Ford.
Just to bring you a bit of perspective on this, price negotiations for parts in autos is negotiated out to the 0.0001, fractions of a cent.
Did your neighborhood gas station lower it's prices when the price of oil went down?
And what CSM said:
If you don't believe they will lower their prices, then you must be willing to start a business competing with them in the market place. It would be a gold mine.
the IRS wouldn't come "Git me" (I love that expression, BTW) they would come and "Git" the shopowner. So we let the Nazis pick on the jews, takes the heat off us.
Unless there is a general clamor, there will not be any spending reductions., the best way to generate such a clamor is to strip out all the gimmicks and show people just how much they are paying.
yes, I just said to get rid of witholding. I favor monthly billing.
Because you take away choice.
i have found your arguments logical and reasonable, even if I disagree - thank you.
could you poiont out where in the constitution or federaslist papers the founders favored taxes on consumption? I know they didn't like income taxes, but...
and an huge sales tax is fair? how?
Seems to me the people ought to pay taxes commensurate with "what they actually take out of the common pot, not what they leave in."--
From Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan, for "it is fairer to tax people on what they extract from the economy, as roughly measured by their consumption, than to tax them on what they produce for the economy, as roughly measured by their income."
And by assuring all voters perceive the butchers bill we pay today for large government restraint for demands from more from government is encouraged in all; not just those few at the upper end of the income spectrum that get hit in the face through the income tax filings.
The Honorable James DeMint (R-SC)
United States House of Representatives
APRIL 5, 2001
- "There has been a shift in the relationship between individuals and government, he argues, such that fewer and fewer are paying taxes at the same time that more and more are receiving increasingly generous benefits. If it becomes the case that most voters do not bear a financial burden for this largess, then there will be little to restrain--and significant political incentives to encourage--the continued growth of government.
If you're among those who pay little or no federal income taxes, what do you care about tax cuts? Moreover, *** So many Americans paying little or no federal taxes makes for a natural spending constituency. It's like me in the restaurant: What do I care about extravagance if you're footing the bill?
--- Walter Williams
Retailers are compensated for collecting the FairTax. Moreover, they will no longer have to comply with the applicable provisions of the Internal Revenue Code. On balance, retailers will be better off.
New businesses will simply need to obtain an exemption certificate, similar to those provided currently by the states, for purchases made in the course of business, for resale to the ultimate consumer.
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