Confederate flag draws protests from Allouez, WIS residents

Duluth Superior ^ | Feb. 27, 2005 | APWire

[stainlessbanner]

ALLOUEZ, Wis. - Norm Watermolen has no plans to take down the Confederate flag he flies outside his shopping center, despite angry phone calls, letters and two thefts of flags.

The American history enthusiast said the replica flag, which flies alongside 17 historically significant flags, is an important part of the country's history, regardless of its association with the Ku Klux Klan and the effort to deny civil rights to blacks.

"I just don't see what all the trouble is," said Watermolen, 78. "Just because somebody decided years ago that it represented the Ku Klux Klan, and to some people in the South and here, it still does. But it's a significant part of our history, one that should be remembered."

Rita Drewieske, of Allouez, disagrees.

"I just find it so offensive," said Drewieske, whose daughter is black. "The flag keeps being taken, so I must not be the only one offended by it."

Watermolen created a flag plaza to display his collection of 18 historically significant flags at his Heritage Village Shoppes, an historically themed retail center. Twenty others at the center represent nations whose people immigrated to Brown County in the early 20th century.

After the second theft, he had the flag reinstalled with a hydraulic lift and padlocked, so it can't be taken unless someone shimmies up the pole and snatches it.

Ken Calewarts, who talked to Watermolen and wrote him a letter, said he had to complain about the flag to show his three children to speak up about things that are important to them.

Watermolen "legally has the right to fly the flag on his own property, and I agree with that. I don't think he's promoting (racism), but I think he's misguided. If he wants to make a statement of American history, I would respect him more if he flew it in front of his own home rather than in my neighborhood," said Calewarts, who is the Allouez village attorney, but spoke as a private citizen.

David Voelker, associate professor of humanistic studies and history at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, said when it was created, the Confederate flag was a symbol for a new nation the Southern states created when they seceded from the United States.

"They were certainly seceding in order to protect what they saw as states' rights, so there's no question there was that political principle at stake," Voelker said. "People have used the Confederate flag as a symbol of both slavery and racism. But historically people have used it as a symbol of states' rights - a symbol of pride in the independence of particular states. A freedom from oppression by a strong central government."

But Voelker said their number one concern was still slavery.

"They wanted to protect the institution of slavery, and they felt that the election of (President) Lincoln was a potential threat to the future of slavery," he said.

Peter Kellogg, chairman of the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, said the version of the Confederate flag typically flown now was not widely used until the 1950s and 1960s, when opposition to school desegregation peaked.

"Therefore its modern use is definitely a symbol of a fight against equal rights for black people. So it is fair to say it is a symbol of racism," Kellogg said.

But Audrey Thiry, who plans to move her salon and a gift shop into Heritage Village at the end of April, said she and her customers aren't concerned about the flag flap.

"Norm (Watermolen) is absolutely not a racist. He is a historian; he is fond of our history," she said. "My clients are thrilled that we are moving into 'the nice mall, the one with the flags.'"

[Modernman]

I hope you DO visit Texas. I will enjoy watching someone open a good old-fashioned can of whoop-*ss on you the minute you open your ignorant mouth.

I've been to Texas several times. I've even debated this topic with Texans and other Southerners. They were, to a man, able to discuss this like civilized adults, without the threat of violence. You, on the other hand, seem to exhibit the qualities of a liberal. If someone says something you do not like, you favor silencing them with violence.

Yes....you are everything I EVER expected in a Yankee.

And you are everything I expect from a neo-confederate wallowing in the ass-whopping his ancestors received over a century ago.

Thankfully, your kind is looked down upon by the normal, decent people of Texas and the rest of the South.

[TwoBit]

"I've wondered about that, too. I've seen a few TV commercials that had the General Lee, & it's always been placed on top of a car hauler so the Stars & Bars can't be seen....will they eventually paint it over???"
I know it rolls off the tongue easily, but.....
Excuse me, but the Southern Cross seen on the top of the car in the Dukes IS NOT and NEVER HAS BEEN the "Stars and Bars".
Imagine the Stars and Stripes with 3 stripes (those would be BARS) same blue field...fewer stars. The Stars and Bars LOOKS LIKE the Stars and Stripes! That's why Beauregard asked the Cary sisters and cousin to sew the Battle Flag in the first place, because the First National(Stars and Bars) was confused with Old Glory on the battlefield.

[stand watie]

the 2d National, to my knowledge, was SELDOM if ever, flown on the battlefield. it WAS flown on government buildings and on SHIPS (where it looked too much like a surrender flag, if the wind was down).

free dixie,sw

[TexConfederate1861]

How would a Scallawag Yankee like yourself have any idea what Texans think about me? I am VERY well respected in my community. Mainly as a historian, and a teacher. As for discussing matters respectfully, you started by insulting Southerners from the START. So don't try to teach that lesson Yank, because "that dog won't hunt". As for being a "Neo", well, that is the only name you ignorant uneducated types from the north throw when you can't win a debate. You know very little of history, and what you know is flawed. Hide behind your PC, my brainless northerner. And be scared. because I am a true conservative, one that believes in the Constitution as it was written, mainly by Southerners. And keep your warped, silly-*ss ideas where somebody cares.

[Modernman]

How would a Scallawag Yankee like yourself have any idea what Texans think about me?

If they're smart, educated Texans, I imagine they laugh at you, just like any other smart, educated American would. They can't help themselves, it's a natural response.

As for being a "Neo", well, that is the only name you ignorant uneducated types from the north throw when you can't win a debate

Word to the unwise: "Neo" means "new." Calling you a neo-Confederate is not calling names, it's an accurate description. I'll try to use simpler words from now on, when posting to you.

You know very little of history, and what you know is flawed.

Typical complaint of a historical revisionist.

And keep your warped, silly-*ss ideas where somebody cares.

I'll keep them on Free Republic. I enjoy exposing you neo-Confederates for what you are: deluded fools dreaming of a glorious past that never existed.

[TexConfederate1861]

First: I know more Latin than you will ever guess, and I am quite aware of what "Neo"means.

Second: I am quite well educated, holding a Masters Degree in History.

Third: The fact that you don't know history has nothing to do with revisionism....You stated the Union Army never attempted to invade Texas. You proved your ignorance. They ATTEMPTED at least 4 times. If you need proof, I will be happy to provide proof.

Fourth: By all means stay around. So will I, and I will expose you for what you are everytime.

Please respond and challenge my knowledge of History. I will enjoy humiliating you :)

[AgentS]

First of all, it's not private property if it's a business site (that'd be kinda hard to get customers don't you think?). Of course, legally, the owner can put up whatever the hell he wants on his front lawn of his home (which would be private property). Pretty much, it's the most blatant display of racism in Wisconsin I've ever seen. It is definitely not meant for historical context. Otherwise, why did this happen: The display was like this for about two weeks after Chai Vang got git (oh yes, the Midwest is very sad). Where's all the other flags, to show all the proud history of America? That just shows how sad racism is in Wisconsin. An Allouez alderman recently admitted to racist comments he made to a radio show. We're talking about a very bigoted region. The reason the Confederate flag is offensive is because it IS a symbol. To those offended, it represents hatred, bigotry, oppression. Any white person who feels their history being attacked is understandable, but in modern times, I'd think you'd have enough courtesy for your fellow human being to understand why it is an offensive symbol. The "get-over-it" mentality is pretty self-serving to a white person, never accounting for his own history (how it effects others and ultimately himself)... If there was anyone who has oppressed you in your life that would blatantly display their hatred for you, I don't think you would take it lightly either. And to show how dramatic they can be, the flag was taken down after effective public criticism, only to be put back up after self-serving conspiracy (that's what they do best). It's sad. I am ashamed to live amongst these people who claim to be so dang righteous.

[TexConfederate1861]

hehe :)

[RavenATB]

This is the sort of ignorance one should expect from that side of the "Cheddar Curtain."

[RavenATB]

"I don't think it's necessarily wrong for people to be offended by the battle flag of a revolt that tore the nation apart and cost hundreds of thousands of lives."

I'm amused that you would place blame for the bloodshed only on those in the south. Have you somehow come to the conclusion that the southern states decided to succeed and then launched an attack against the north?

No! The forces of the North invaded the south and started a war, killing hundreds of thousands of citizens, in order to enforce the north's preferred set of boundaries.

That is a fact.

[RavenATB]

"It's also laughable how people who want others to see this particular cause in the most positive light are so quick to pile on and attack the entire state of Wisconsin because someone there complained about this flag. "

Don't sell Wisconsin short. There are a great many reasons to "pile on and attack" the entire state Badger State. This is only one.

[Rebelbase]

I guess we should have sympathy for those British people who are offended by the sight of an American Flag. That was one hell of a rebellion.

[Rebelbase]

"I am ashamed to live amongst these people who claim to be so dang righteous."

Get over it.

[Non-Sequitur]

Rebellion implies an effort to overthrow washington, which simply wasn't the case.

No, rebellion is defined as "open, armed, and usually unsuccessful defiance of or resistance to an established government." A reasonable description of the southern actions.

[Rebelbase]

"Cheddar Curtain."

ROTF!

[Non-Sequitur]

Just because you want to fly your confederate flag in areas of the country that participated in the rebellion, why should you expect it to be welcomed with the same enthusiasm in areas that fought against you? You want to fly it in Dixie, fine. Don't force it on the rest of us.