Feeding Tube To Remain. Judge Issues Stay.[Terri Schiavo]

[ConservativeMan55]

Per foxnews alert!

[HonestConservative]

Thankfully, I am not an expert in hearsay, either. But using the reasonable man logic, if you compare this Living Will issue to that of an actual will, how many judges, in a case contesting a will, would permit evidence given by a family member re, for instance, 50 million in inheritance, based on verbal testimony from one who stood to gain from that testimony, supported by others who stood to gain as well,to determine the outcome of a trial. "Oh but Joe told me I could have the 50 million!" Pretty shaky. It seems a reasonable man would support a written will. No written will then the rules of inheritance would apply. No living will, then the silence of the individual on the subject speaks.


In addition, if it were a murder case, and three witnesses name Joe as the murderer stating that they saw him do it, are themselves suspects with motive and opportunity, is their testimony evidence? Yes, but is it evidence upon which a reasonable man should convict? No, not unless there is other strong evidence, DNA, fingerprints, etc.

But hey, I'm here to learn.

[Trinity_Tx]

LOL No need, he's so much smarter than I, and I respect him so much, when the odd time comes up that we do disagree, he can handle me easily. ; )

[Trinity_Tx]

Thanks! I'm in the middle of homeschooling, so it'll take a bit to answer all those questions, but I'll gladly get started in a minute. : )

[TheBrotherhood]

I hope you know the meaning of anachronism because you seem to be one.

[Trinity_Tx]

"Answer these questions, and I'll have a much better feeling about the analysis you give."

Thanks. =] But even if the answer to each is that he was an opportunistic ass, or that he neglected Terri since he got the $, (and I believe he has), it wouldn't change the facts of her collapse to mean he caused it.



I can accept what you say as valid. About bone bruising, etc.

Thanks. : ) I'm just clarifying what the radiologist said he saw, and what the medical records say about her condition and what caused it.



What I find hard to swallow, is why Michael got on the phone with her brother for an hour before calling the paramedics.

He didn't. Her brother lived right by them and came over.

Was it stupid to call her dad instead of 911 first? yup.
But let me ask you this: If he tried to kill her, why call anyone at all so soon?

He could have just gone back to bed and "found" her an hour or two later when she was totally gone.



Why he stated when this first occurred (in reference to her possibly not recovering any further) "I don't know what to do, Terri and I never discussed anything like this".

Maybe it's true that the subject never came up and he's lying now.
Maybe it only came up watching that movie, and he knew it didn't really apply to her situation.



The moment he got the INSURANCE PROCEEDS, he stated that "Terri said if she ever got like this, she would want to die".

No... it was ~5 years later. Before that, Florida didn't even allow feeding tubes to be removed, so it wouldn't have mattered what he said she said she wanted.



Why he refuses to divorce Terri, why he is living with another woman, why that woman has her own INSURANCE COMPANY, and is there a policy on TERRI under that company?

I think he refuses to divorce or give therapy to Terri
a) to spite her parents, and
b) because he fears that if she ever got therapy and improved, he'd have to admit that he neglected her all these years.

I have no idea if they have a life insurance policy on her anymore. Though the legal costs seem to make it a better idea to just wait, it could be a factor.

Being a sick opportunist doesn't make the "he assaulted her" theory any less full of holes.



Why he refuses to let her have rehabilitative therapy, and has refused so ever since he got the INSURANCE PROCEEDS.

His stopping therapy and refusing to give her more is wrong, and why I don;t support him. But it still doesn't mean he caused her collapse and is afraid she'll tell.

If he was afraid she'd tell that he caused her collapse, why did he get her pretty damned good therapy in the years before he even got the $?

He could also have had her plug pulled while she was in a coma and on the respirator.

And remember, under Florida law, he also **could have had her feeding tube removed without ever going to court.** He *chose* to let the court make the decision, taking the chance that they'd decide against him, or force him to give her therapy, just so her parents would not put the blame all on him.

Why he refuses to allow the parents to videotape her, anyone to videotape her.

I'm sure he hates when her parents use tapes against him in the court of public opinion.

I'd also say that there's a slight chance he actually believes the doctors who for years have told him those are just reflexes, and thinks the tapes are being misinterpreted at the cost of Terri's dignity. If my husband allowed tapes of me like that, I'd haunt him forever.

Why doesn't he show tapes of her being unresponsive? Even her parents' doctors say that she only intermittently shows a reaction. He could easily show the segments of those tapes where she's not reacting at all, even to her mother, as the court saw.

Whatever the reason, still doesn't change the facts of her diagnosis, or mean he caused her collapse.



Why Terri often undergoes the symptoms of INSULIN OVERDOSE after each of Michael's 'private' visits?

"Often" and "each" are exaggerated. There were some times a nurse thought he had injected her, or at least got her so shook up her blood sugar took a serious dive. He could have wrongly, stupidly, and ineffectively given her insulin hoping to end the whole thing.



Why nurses who 'discuss' Terri's responsive actions are FIRED.

There is a nurse (2?) who claims that happened to her.

But in all these years, Terri has had dozens and dozens of caretakers. ~4 have stepped forward to say they saw signs of her communicating.

I do not believe for one second that *all* of those other nurses have been silenced in fear of their jobs. Too many of them. Could be they don't see anything, could be that they don't think it's significant, could be they are biased.

Anyway... whew.

Bottom line... lol

You don't have to give up any of your other ideas about him to look at the pieces of her collapse and see that the assault theory just has too many holes in it, while the diagnosis made by the hospital and confirmed at trial makes perfect, consistent sense.

[Trinity_Tx]

"Exactly what do Terri's EEG's reveal hmmmm??????? "

I answered you 2 days ago. lol

Her EEGs are and have been flat for years.

Her parent's doctor Hammesfher(?never get his name right) says there could still be something there, just not showing up because she was restless and they filtered her good waves out accidentally.

I don't know - just telling you what the doctors say.

"Since she breathes on her own she IS NOT BRAIN DEAD!"

The medulla keeps us functioning even without thoughts, which an EEG measures. But you're right - doctors don't use the term Brain Dead when that happens - they call it PVS or coma.

[Trinity_Tx]

Add a ton of charisma, and remove the bushy hair, and change the field of interest... yeah! lol

[UCANSEE2]

Thank you for dissecting my questions and providing rational responses.

Your responses may help out posters on BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

Many times, the real truth lies somewhere in the middle of the POLARIZATION OF OPINIONS that can occur when one does have the benefit of solid evidence.


I do think that regardless to whether Michael had a hand in causing Terri's accident,

He did try to care for her,
After several years of no apparent recovery,
and receiving the insurance money,
he could see no point in hoping for her recovery,
and started a new life.

Maybe he couldn't break the bond, without feeling guilt, so he stays married to her.

All of this could be true, and is at the 'he's innocent' end of the scale.

He has given every appearance of being a low to mid level organized crime thug that has hidden reasons to stay married (greed of some kind) yet has a girlfriend who runs her own INSURANCE COMPANY, and he insists on keeping the parents, the media, and cameras away from Terri, and he wants Terri to DIE.

The SCALE wants to tip to the side of MURDERER, IMHO.

[UCANSEE2]

P.S. In support of your response, The apparent damage to Terri could be existent even if Michael never did anything to harm Terri.

The medical reports and analyses support but do not prove Michael orchestrated her injuries.

[UCANSEE2]

P.S. On the other hand, Michael's statement ,"Is the bitch dead yet?", doesn't really help his case.

[jackibutterfly]

You haven't explained why she had so many broken bones, and why, if she had a "heart attack" at 26, she has not had any heart problems since then or why he's so hell bent on having her starve to death.

[Trinity_Tx]

Thank you, too!

"Many times, the real truth lies somewhere in the middle of the POLARIZATION OF OPINIONS that can occur when one does have the benefit of solid evidence."

So true.

And you know, what bothers me, is not just that having misinformation used to say he assaulted her hurts the credibility of other things we say, but the fact that whether or not he caused her collapse is a distraction to the main point...IMO

The point is that all guardians should have to show they have the patient's best comfort in mind, and prove it's what the person wanted, and then only after they have given their best efforts at rehabilitation.

I think doing anything less is dangerous territory.

[Trinity_Tx]

"The apparent damage to Terri could be existent even if Michael never did anything to harm Terri."

Thank you. Exactly. : )

Her medical report does not support his trying to harm her. If he had, there are too many signs missing, *and* too many elements his attack would not have accounted for.

[Trinity_Tx]

Actually, I went into great depth explaining those things. Please read posts 432, 447, and 457.

Re why she hasn't had a problem since then... again, she never had a heart attack, she had *cardiac arrest*. She hasn't had that problem since, because the diet she's on has removed the cause of it, which was severely low potassium, etc.

Her potassium was a 2. At the lowest range of 3.7, one is 2-4 times (I'm fading here, sorry lol) more likely to have cardiac arrest.

[Trinity_Tx]

You make a great point!

My apologies to Al. ; )

[bjs1779]

Empire journal had a few names that I didn't notice before.


2/27/1990
CT Scan Report Dr. Greenberg
Normal CT Scan

7/10/1990
Progress Note Dr. Baras
Purposeful movement in right upper extremity seen by P.T., O.T. and me, but not consistent. Flexing rt. Elbow not as a reflex, but voluntarily

7/12/1990
Progress Notes Dr. Baras
Responsive, eyes open to sensory stimulation in arm.


7/13/1990
Progress Notes Dr. Baras
Eyes open to voice, tracking, moving head toward sound, no voluntary movement consistently as yet, but does move right upper extremity

7/19/1990
Progress Notes Dr. Baras
Pt. does respond to pain with moaning


7/26/1990
Progress Notes Dr. Baras
Pt awakens to her name but does not track or turn head to noise

1/29/1991
Progress Note Dr. Alcazaran

Noted increased alertness, turns head toward voice, turns head from tactile stimulation. Sucking and rooting response to olfactory stimulation. Spontaneously vocalized. Good cough. Head midline X 15 sec. Some visual tracking.

1/29/1991
Nursing Note O'Connell, LPN
Pt awake in bed, examined by Dr. Alcazaren - eyes open - some trcking noted X1 when spoken to. No commands followed.


1/29/1991
Case Management Notes T. Hughes
Open eyes to voice and tactile stimulation, appears to track periodically, especially to right.


2/1/1991
Therapeutic Recreation Notes Sherri Lage
Pt. appeared to focus on several pictures of family for about 10 seconds, appeared to slightly track to left each session, but inconsistent. Quick startle response to all auditory stimuli, occasionally moved head away from tactile stimuli. No response to olfactory.


2/6/1991
Speech-Language Notes
Commands to voice - moves tongue, (slight elevation noted), blinks eyes. Movements not developed to the point that a yes/no response could be initiated. Visual tracking to left is inconsistant. Oral motor stimulation results in increased reflexive chew / swallow


2/8/1991
Therapeutic Recreation Notes Sherri Lage
Seen 5X last week. Had eyes open each session, appeared to focus on family pictures but only slight tracking to left noted X1. Consistent startle response to auditory stimuli

2/13/1991
Progress Notes Dr. Alcazaren
Arouses easily

2/15/1991
Psychology Notes Patti Shook
Terri's eye opening responses were her strongest. Terri's tactile responses were her best, with the other four modalities only 1 to 2 points behind. This level of functioning is appropriate for a sensory stimulation program.


2/20/1991
Physical Therapy Notes
Pt has made significant gains since admission in all areas of range of motion. Have on one occasion when pt reclined, on command pt extended right knee, 4 X / 6 at random request. Appeared to follow command to turn her head while I had her on the mat the other day, but not (yet) consistant.

3/6/1991
Nursing Note DeRosa, RN
Pt lifted head off pillow straining neck, look at something to her right. Pt making humming sounds for about 5 min.


3/8/1991
Progress Notes Dr. Carnahan
Bone Scan reveals subperiosteal area of right thigh - most likely reflects H.O. Other areas not explained by disease ? Infection. Neoplastic is rare probability.


3/15/1991
Therapeutic Recreation Notes Laura Mizell
Therapeutic Recreation T.R. 5X/wk for 1/2 hr. Pt has displayed an increase in eye opening since last 30 day summary. Pts responses to auditory stimulation are at the point that they are almost auditorily defensive. During recent outings, rugby game kept eyes closed to, from and during game, beach visit more aroused.


3/26/1991
Nurses Notes
Terri's side-rail on her bed found down after Michael left. When told about it, he replied that "that was their job."


4/5/1991
Therapeutic Recreation Notes Laura Mizell
Pt seen 5X this week. Pt appears to blink eyes to sounds. Turned away from blow drier, increase in tone. Turned head when therapist used her name.


March to mid summer, 1997
Heidi Law Affidavit
No physical or other therapy. Extremely ticklish on her feet. Sat in a chair all afternoon. When in bed, preferred to lie on her right side and look out the window. Displayed likes and dislikes. Adored baths


11/11/1997
Assessment Report Marie Piarade CTR
Resident enjoys listening to other people converse, loves to hear jokes and laughs; appears to enjoy music entertainment, likes when people tell her jokes; demonstrates occasional responses, i.e., eye contact, laughter, but not consistent; mild pain


3/14/1998
Progress Notes Dr. Barnhill
Examined patient for neurolocial evaluation per request of husband through attorney George Felos

5/14/1998
Nurses Notes
Alert, non-responsive

5/22/1998
Nurses Notes
Alert

5/28/1998
Nurses Notes
Pt. remains alert

9/11/1999
Dr. Letter Jeffrey Karp, M.D.
pt is in a persistent vegetative state per Florida Statutes provided to me by Mr. Felos

[curiousmind]

Article on "Browse" page. Man who killed dog gets 5 years.
Dog died, but got some justice, and didn't starve or dehydrate.

[Broker]

Hypothetical: Terri is now PREGNANT? Imagine That?