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To: UCANSEE2
"Answer these questions, and I'll have a much better feeling about the analysis you give."

Thanks. =] But even if the answer to each is that he was an opportunistic ass, or that he neglected Terri since he got the $, (and I believe he has), it wouldn't change the facts of her collapse to mean he caused it.



I can accept what you say as valid. About bone bruising, etc.

Thanks. : ) I'm just clarifying what the radiologist said he saw, and what the medical records say about her condition and what caused it.



What I find hard to swallow, is why Michael got on the phone with her brother for an hour before calling the paramedics.

He didn't. Her brother lived right by them and came over.

Was it stupid to call her dad instead of 911 first? yup.
But let me ask you this: If he tried to kill her, why call anyone at all so soon?

He could have just gone back to bed and "found" her an hour or two later when she was totally gone.



Why he stated when this first occurred (in reference to her possibly not recovering any further) "I don't know what to do, Terri and I never discussed anything like this".

Maybe it's true that the subject never came up and he's lying now.
Maybe it only came up watching that movie, and he knew it didn't really apply to her situation.



The moment he got the INSURANCE PROCEEDS, he stated that "Terri said if she ever got like this, she would want to die".

No... it was ~5 years later. Before that, Florida didn't even allow feeding tubes to be removed, so it wouldn't have mattered what he said she said she wanted.



Why he refuses to divorce Terri, why he is living with another woman, why that woman has her own INSURANCE COMPANY, and is there a policy on TERRI under that company?

I think he refuses to divorce or give therapy to Terri
a) to spite her parents, and
b) because he fears that if she ever got therapy and improved, he'd have to admit that he neglected her all these years.

I have no idea if they have a life insurance policy on her anymore. Though the legal costs seem to make it a better idea to just wait, it could be a factor.

Being a sick opportunist doesn't make the "he assaulted her" theory any less full of holes.



Why he refuses to let her have rehabilitative therapy, and has refused so ever since he got the INSURANCE PROCEEDS.

His stopping therapy and refusing to give her more is wrong, and why I don;t support him. But it still doesn't mean he caused her collapse and is afraid she'll tell.

If he was afraid she'd tell that he caused her collapse, why did he get her pretty damned good therapy in the years before he even got the $?

He could also have had her plug pulled while she was in a coma and on the respirator.

And remember, under Florida law, he also **could have had her feeding tube removed without ever going to court.** He *chose* to let the court make the decision, taking the chance that they'd decide against him, or force him to give her therapy, just so her parents would not put the blame all on him.

Why he refuses to allow the parents to videotape her, anyone to videotape her.

I'm sure he hates when her parents use tapes against him in the court of public opinion.

I'd also say that there's a slight chance he actually believes the doctors who for years have told him those are just reflexes, and thinks the tapes are being misinterpreted at the cost of Terri's dignity. If my husband allowed tapes of me like that, I'd haunt him forever.

Why doesn't he show tapes of her being unresponsive? Even her parents' doctors say that she only intermittently shows a reaction. He could easily show the segments of those tapes where she's not reacting at all, even to her mother, as the court saw.

Whatever the reason, still doesn't change the facts of her diagnosis, or mean he caused her collapse.



Why Terri often undergoes the symptoms of INSULIN OVERDOSE after each of Michael's 'private' visits?

"Often" and "each" are exaggerated. There were some times a nurse thought he had injected her, or at least got her so shook up her blood sugar took a serious dive. He could have wrongly, stupidly, and ineffectively given her insulin hoping to end the whole thing.



Why nurses who 'discuss' Terri's responsive actions are FIRED.

There is a nurse (2?) who claims that happened to her.

But in all these years, Terri has had dozens and dozens of caretakers. ~4 have stepped forward to say they saw signs of her communicating.

I do not believe for one second that *all* of those other nurses have been silenced in fear of their jobs. Too many of them. Could be they don't see anything, could be that they don't think it's significant, could be they are biased.

Anyway... whew.

Bottom line... lol

You don't have to give up any of your other ideas about him to look at the pieces of her collapse and see that the assault theory just has too many holes in it, while the diagnosis made by the hospital and confirmed at trial makes perfect, consistent sense.
506 posted on 02/24/2005 12:44:55 PM PST by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)
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To: Trinity_Tx

Thank you for dissecting my questions and providing rational responses.

Your responses may help out posters on BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

Many times, the real truth lies somewhere in the middle of the POLARIZATION OF OPINIONS that can occur when one does have the benefit of solid evidence.


I do think that regardless to whether Michael had a hand in causing Terri's accident,

He did try to care for her,
After several years of no apparent recovery,
and receiving the insurance money,
he could see no point in hoping for her recovery,
and started a new life.

Maybe he couldn't break the bond, without feeling guilt, so he stays married to her.

All of this could be true, and is at the 'he's innocent' end of the scale.

He has given every appearance of being a low to mid level organized crime thug that has hidden reasons to stay married (greed of some kind) yet has a girlfriend who runs her own INSURANCE COMPANY, and he insists on keeping the parents, the media, and cameras away from Terri, and he wants Terri to DIE.

The SCALE wants to tip to the side of MURDERER, IMHO.


509 posted on 02/24/2005 1:14:20 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: Trinity_Tx
P.S. In support of your response, The apparent damage to Terri could be existent even if Michael never did anything to harm Terri.

The medical reports and analyses support but do not prove Michael orchestrated her injuries.

510 posted on 02/24/2005 1:23:33 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: Trinity_Tx

P.S. On the other hand, Michael's statement ,"Is the bitch dead yet?", doesn't really help his case.


511 posted on 02/24/2005 1:25:31 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: Trinity_Tx

Empire journal had a few names that I didn't notice before.


2/27/1990
CT Scan Report Dr. Greenberg
Normal CT Scan

7/10/1990
Progress Note Dr. Baras
Purposeful movement in right upper extremity seen by P.T., O.T. and me, but not consistent. Flexing rt. Elbow not as a reflex, but voluntarily

7/12/1990
Progress Notes Dr. Baras
Responsive, eyes open to sensory stimulation in arm.


7/13/1990
Progress Notes Dr. Baras
Eyes open to voice, tracking, moving head toward sound, no voluntary movement consistently as yet, but does move right upper extremity

7/19/1990
Progress Notes Dr. Baras
Pt. does respond to pain with moaning


7/26/1990
Progress Notes Dr. Baras
Pt awakens to her name but does not track or turn head to noise

1/29/1991
Progress Note Dr. Alcazaran

Noted increased alertness, turns head toward voice, turns head from tactile stimulation. Sucking and rooting response to olfactory stimulation. Spontaneously vocalized. Good cough. Head midline X 15 sec. Some visual tracking.

1/29/1991
Nursing Note O'Connell, LPN
Pt awake in bed, examined by Dr. Alcazaren - eyes open - some trcking noted X1 when spoken to. No commands followed.


1/29/1991
Case Management Notes T. Hughes
Open eyes to voice and tactile stimulation, appears to track periodically, especially to right.


2/1/1991
Therapeutic Recreation Notes Sherri Lage
Pt. appeared to focus on several pictures of family for about 10 seconds, appeared to slightly track to left each session, but inconsistent. Quick startle response to all auditory stimuli, occasionally moved head away from tactile stimuli. No response to olfactory.


2/6/1991
Speech-Language Notes
Commands to voice - moves tongue, (slight elevation noted), blinks eyes. Movements not developed to the point that a yes/no response could be initiated. Visual tracking to left is inconsistant. Oral motor stimulation results in increased reflexive chew / swallow


2/8/1991
Therapeutic Recreation Notes Sherri Lage
Seen 5X last week. Had eyes open each session, appeared to focus on family pictures but only slight tracking to left noted X1. Consistent startle response to auditory stimuli

2/13/1991
Progress Notes Dr. Alcazaren
Arouses easily

2/15/1991
Psychology Notes Patti Shook
Terri's eye opening responses were her strongest. Terri's tactile responses were her best, with the other four modalities only 1 to 2 points behind. This level of functioning is appropriate for a sensory stimulation program.


2/20/1991
Physical Therapy Notes
Pt has made significant gains since admission in all areas of range of motion. Have on one occasion when pt reclined, on command pt extended right knee, 4 X / 6 at random request. Appeared to follow command to turn her head while I had her on the mat the other day, but not (yet) consistant.

3/6/1991
Nursing Note DeRosa, RN
Pt lifted head off pillow straining neck, look at something to her right. Pt making humming sounds for about 5 min.


3/8/1991
Progress Notes Dr. Carnahan
Bone Scan reveals subperiosteal area of right thigh - most likely reflects H.O. Other areas not explained by disease ? Infection. Neoplastic is rare probability.


3/15/1991
Therapeutic Recreation Notes Laura Mizell
Therapeutic Recreation T.R. 5X/wk for 1/2 hr. Pt has displayed an increase in eye opening since last 30 day summary. Pts responses to auditory stimulation are at the point that they are almost auditorily defensive. During recent outings, rugby game kept eyes closed to, from and during game, beach visit more aroused.


3/26/1991
Nurses Notes
Terri's side-rail on her bed found down after Michael left. When told about it, he replied that "that was their job."


4/5/1991
Therapeutic Recreation Notes Laura Mizell
Pt seen 5X this week. Pt appears to blink eyes to sounds. Turned away from blow drier, increase in tone. Turned head when therapist used her name.


March to mid summer, 1997
Heidi Law Affidavit
No physical or other therapy. Extremely ticklish on her feet. Sat in a chair all afternoon. When in bed, preferred to lie on her right side and look out the window. Displayed likes and dislikes. Adored baths


11/11/1997
Assessment Report Marie Piarade CTR
Resident enjoys listening to other people converse, loves to hear jokes and laughs; appears to enjoy music entertainment, likes when people tell her jokes; demonstrates occasional responses, i.e., eye contact, laughter, but not consistent; mild pain


3/14/1998
Progress Notes Dr. Barnhill
Examined patient for neurolocial evaluation per request of husband through attorney George Felos

5/14/1998
Nurses Notes
Alert, non-responsive

5/22/1998
Nurses Notes
Alert

5/28/1998
Nurses Notes
Pt. remains alert

9/11/1999
Dr. Letter Jeffrey Karp, M.D.
pt is in a persistent vegetative state per Florida Statutes provided to me by Mr. Felos


518 posted on 02/24/2005 3:03:38 PM PST by bjs1779 (I fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she swallowed and enjoyed immensely" Cna H.Law 1997)
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To: Trinity_Tx
If he tried to kill her, why call anyone at all so soon?

It wouldn't do him much good to kill her. There would have been an extensive investigation, the bone bruising would have been discovered, and EVEN IF MICHAEL DID NOT CAUSE IT, it would have been suspicious and supportive of abuse.

Michael gives the appearance of being a lowlife mob scum who knows how to exploit the insurance game. I saw his interview on TV and come on, OPEN SHIRT WITH GOLD CHAINS HANGING DOWN. (Either that or he is a gansta pimp!)

The ORIGINAL LAWSUIT, blamed the OB/GYN doctor for her 'accident'. They settled (which is one of the 'games' in the insurance arena) rather than fight it).

Wanna explain that to me so I understand how they were are fault? Seems like Michael may have had a 'plan', or maybe it wasn't him, it was FELOS that inspired him with the plan, and encouraged him knowing he (FELOS) could get the INSCO to give in and pay.

Bottom line. Michael may or may not have had anything to do with Terri's accident.

If not, then he has no excuse for doing the RIGHT THING and letting her parents care for her and letting GOD decide when she is to die.

537 posted on 02/26/2005 4:04:22 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: Trinity_Tx

Cna H. Law
"When Terri would get a UTI or was sick, Michael’s mood would improve." H. Law - 1997 H. Law affidavit




CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N
" I was employed at Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center in Largo, Florida from April of 1995 to July 1996, while Terri Schiavo was a patient there."

“Can’t you do anything to accelerate her death - won’t she ever die?” When she wouldn’t die, Michael would be furious. Michael was also adamant that the family should not be given information. ".....

" I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day...." CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N - Affidavit


565 posted on 02/27/2005 10:41:02 AM PST by UCANSEE2
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