But his policy against walls suppressing freedom was, IMO.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall, Berlin, 1987
Posted on 02/21/2005 2:38:55 AM PST by ajolympian2004
By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - Intent on securing the vulnerable Arizona border from illegal immigrant crossings, U.S. officials are bracing for what they call a potential new threat this spring: the Minutemen. Nearly 500 volunteers have already joined the Minuteman Project, anointing themselves civilian border patrol agents determined to stop the immigration flow that routinely, and easily, seeps past federal authorities.
They plan to patrol a 40-mile stretch of the southeast Arizona border throughout April when the tide of immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border peaks.
"I felt the only way to get something done was to do it yourself," said Jim Gilchrist, a retired accountant and decorated Vietnam War veteran who is helping recruit Minutemen across the country.
"We've been repeatedly accused of being people who are taking the law into our own hands," said Gilchrist, 56, of Aliso Viejo, Calif. "That is an outright bogus statement. We are going down there to assist law enforcement."
Officials concede the 370-mile Arizona border is the most porous stretch on the U.S.-Mexico line. Moreover, recent intelligence show that al-Qaida terrorists are likely to enter the country through the Mexico border, James Loy, the deputy secretary of the Homeland Security Department, said last week.
"Several al-Qaida leaders believe operatives can pay their way into the country through Mexico, and also believe illegal entry is more advantageous than legal entry for operational security reasons," Loy said in written testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Of the 1.1 million illegal immigrants caught by the U.S. Border Patrol last year, 52 percent crossed into the country at the Arizona border. The agency increased the number of agents in the Tucson sector, which has its largest staff, from 1,700 to 2,100 over the last 18 months.
But that number is going to grow to try to plug the remaining holes, said Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Robert C. Bonner. About 10,000 federal agents now patrol the 2,000-mile southern border, he said.
Officials fear the Minuteman patrols could cause more trouble than they prevent. At least some of the volunteers plan to arm themselves during the 24-hour desert patrols. Many are untrained and have little or no experience in confronting illegal border crossings.
"Any time there are firearms and you're out in the middle of no-man's land in difficult terrain, it's a dangerous setting," said Bonner, whose agency is keeping a close eye on the Minutemen plans.
"The Border Patrol does this every day, and they are qualified and very well-trained to handle the situation," he said. "Ordinary Americans are not. So there's a danger that not just illegal migrants might get hurt, but that American citizens might get hurt in this situation."
Civilian patrols are nothing new along the southern border, where crossing the international line is sometimes as easy as stepping over a few rusty strands of barbed wire. But they usually are limited to small, informal groups, leaving organizers to believe the Minuteman Project is the largest of its kind on the southern border.
It may also prove to be a magnet for what Glenn Spencer, president of the private American Border Patrol, described as camouflage-wearing, weapons-toting hard-liners who might get a little carried away with their assignments.
"How are they going to keep the nutcases out of there? They can't control that," said Spencer, whose 40-volunteer group, based in Hereford, Ariz., has used unmanned aerial vehicles and other high-tech equipment to track and report the number of border crossings for more than two years.
"There's a storm gathering here on the border, and there are conditions ripe for some difficulty," he said.
The border agents agree.
The Minutemen "clearly have every reason to be upset with the federal government for abandoning them," said National Border Patrol Council president T.J. Bonner, no relation to the commissioner.
But "if anything goes wrong, God forbid, someone does injure an agent, this government is going to be turning both barrels on them and come after them with a vengeance," he said.
Gilchrist said the Minutemen are under strict orders to merely identify and follow illegal border crossers and alert federal agents. They should not interact with the immigrants except to offer food, water or medical care. If there's a couple of "bad apples" who turn up in the group, Gilchrist said, they will face prosecution if they step outside the law.
Something dramatic needed to be done to curb the years of crime, property damage and trash dumping caused by the border crossings, Gilchrist said.
"Things are out of control" he said. "And they've been out of control for decades."
Oh, and BTW, that flame-bait post was removed. Please feel free to consider that a defined boundary on this thread.
That's not what you said:
I take you are anti-gun rights and anti-self-defense.
There is a fair debate as to whether the tactics of the Minutemen make sense - but that does not warrant an accusation against an established poster that he is anti-gun-rights and anti-self defense - especially when his posting history strongly indicates otherwise.
We need to cut out the unsubstantiated attacks.
You replied to that so I explained my point of view in further detail.
uarmed - unarmed
And, once again, that is a very serious statement to level against a poster on this website, whose members are almost universally pro-gun and pro-self defense, with many being leading activists in that arena. A simple perusal of D1's posting history would have revealed that statement to be false. But you made it anyway.
That kind of stuff needs to stop. You've been here almost four years - it's not like you don't know how to do a few minutes of research of someone's posting history.
Perhaps DoughtyOne doesn't think he personally owns Main Street, as others apparently do.
Please elaborate. We've had exactly one poster make any kind of statement about violence - framed as a question - and one that is often asked about the level of force that one can use against trespassers causing property damage. So there are no "others" here that I can see.
I have already explained to you in detail the logic behind my point about DoughtyOne's post 2 and since you are taking my statement way too personally, especially considering my original post to this thread was not directed at you.
But his policy against walls suppressing freedom was, IMO.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall, Berlin, 1987
There is a huge difference between a country building a wall to keep its people in than a country building a wall to keep the people of other countries out who wish to enter illegally.
JMO, a militarized wall, is a militarized wall, is a militarized wall.
Again JMO, building a wall will not solve the problems as they didn't solve them behind the iron curtain.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall", Ronald Reagan, Berlin, 1987
That's a valid question Paul. I do support gun rights. I think you have every right to expect to be able to defend yourself also. You may not like my explanation, but here goes anyway.
There are times in life when it is better to sacrifice self than provide aid and comfort to the enemy. Paul, our founding fathers were generally rather well to do. They could have used every excuse in the book to protect themselves and give up the idea of creating a new nation. They didn't.
Many of them lost everything they had. Many died. Many wound up pennyless. Their cause lives on. Their cause is your cause.
If our citizens go to the border armed and an incident errupts, no matter the justification, they will be blamed. I think you understand this. So rather than let the media spin this one to prove what yahoos the conservative right are, I advocate letting the other side have the upper hand until it is shown what they are like.
Some of our people may get hurt. Some of them may get hurt seriously. If they do, it's going to be damned hard for the media to play the poor illegal off against the big meanie rednecks.
Once it's clear what you're dealing with, subsequent actions will be justified. At no time do I advocate use of force as a remedy, unless your life is threatened, even then.
What I am trying to say, is sometimes you can be entirely justified and win the battle, yet lose the war. Don't let that happen.
If you do, you guys will get all the blame. The Feds will prevent anyone from trying this again. And the flow of illegals will go up if anything, as a result.
Hope this makes sense to you.
If you don't like walls, Dane, that's your choice. They do serve a purpose from time to time, especially when your neighbors don't respect your rules.
In other words, a classical non-violent protest. And only the willing are included.
Yeah, I got that impression, too. Made me scratch my head and think, "WTF??"
Yes, they are. White supremecist racists like the old "American Bund", who endorsed Hitler and the Nazis before America entered WW2.
Oh yes, they are. Except in this case, the "people" represented are actually the "artificial persons" commonly known as corporate donors.
Individuals don't mean diddly-squat to the Honorables, unless they are "victims" trotted out to testify in support of some new Federal law, program, tax, or other wealth-distribution scam.
Racists, Rednecks and Even Some Members of Free Republic, Attempt to Use Deadly Force Against Poor Immigrant Men Women and Children
Sound like a winner to you?
This is the last thing I ever want to see. I would hope that you could agree.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.