Posted on 02/08/2005 3:50:43 AM PST by PatrickHenry
A group of four-footed mammals that flourished worldwide for 40 million years and then died out in the ice ages is the missing link between the whale and its not-so-obvious nearest relative, the hippopotamus.
The conclusion by University of California, Berkeley, post-doctoral fellow Jean-Renaud Boisserie and his French colleagues finally puts to rest the long-standing notion that the hippo is actually related to the pig or to its close relative, the South American peccary. In doing so, the finding reconciles the fossil record with the 20-year-old claim that molecular evidence points to the whale as the closest relative of the hippo.
"The problem with hippos is, if you look at the general shape of the animal it could be related to horses, as the ancient Greeks thought, or pigs, as modern scientists thought, while molecular phylogeny shows a close relationship with whales," said Boisserie. "But cetaceans whales, porpoises and dolphins don't look anything like hippos. There is a 40-million-year gap between fossils of early cetaceans and early hippos."
In a paper appearing this week in the Online Early Edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Boisserie and colleagues Michel Brunet and Fabrice Lihoreau fill in this gap by proposing that whales and hippos had a common water-loving ancestor 50 to 60 million years ago that evolved and split into two groups: the early cetaceans, which eventually spurned land altogether and became totally aquatic; and a large and diverse group of four-legged beasts called anthracotheres. The pig-like anthracotheres, which blossomed over a 40-million-year period into at least 37 distinct genera on all continents except Oceania and South America, died out less than 2 and a half million years ago, leaving only one descendent: the hippopotamus.
This proposal places whales squarely within the large group of cloven-hoofed mammals (even-toed ungulates) known collectively as the Artiodactyla the group that includes cows, pigs, sheep, antelopes, camels, giraffes and most of the large land animals. Rather than separating whales from the rest of the mammals, the new study supports a 1997 proposal to place the legless whales and dolphins together with the cloven-hoofed mammals in a group named Cetartiodactyla.
"Our study shows that these groups are not as unrelated as thought by morphologists," Boisserie said, referring to scientists who classify organisms based on their physical characteristics or morphology. "Cetaceans are artiodactyls, but very derived artiodactyls."
The origin of hippos has been debated vociferously for nearly 200 years, ever since the animals were rediscovered by pioneering French paleontologist Georges Cuvier and others. Their conclusion that hippos are closely related to pigs and peccaries was based primarily on their interpretation of the ridges on the molars of these species, Boisserie said.
"In this particular case, you can't really rely on the dentition, however," Boisserie said. "Teeth are the best preserved and most numerous fossils, and analysis of teeth is very important in paleontology, but they are subject to lots of environmental processes and can quickly adapt to the outside world. So, most characteristics are not dependable indications of relationships between major groups of mammals. Teeth are not as reliable as people thought."
As scientists found more fossils of early hippos and anthracotheres, a competing hypothesis roiled the waters: that hippos are descendents of the anthracotheres.
All this was thrown into disarray in 1985 when UC Berkeley's Vincent Sarich, a pioneer of the field of molecular evolution and now a professor emeritus of anthropology, analyzed blood proteins and saw a close relationship between hippos and whales. A subsequent analysis of mitochondrial, nuclear and ribosomal DNA only solidified this relationship.
Though most biologists now agree that whales and hippos are first cousins, they continue to clash over how whales and hippos are related, and where they belong within the even-toed ungulates, the artiodactyls. A major roadblock to linking whales with hippos was the lack of any fossils that appeared intermediate between the two. In fact, it was a bit embarrassing for paleontologists because the claimed link between the two would mean that one of the major radiations of mammals the one that led to cetaceans, which represent the most successful re-adaptation to life in water had an origin deeply nested within the artiodactyls, and that morphologists had failed to recognize it.
This new analysis finally brings the fossil evidence into accord with the molecular data, showing that whales and hippos indeed are one another's closest relatives.
"This work provides another important step for the reconciliation between molecular- and morphology-based phylogenies, and indicates new tracks for research on emergence of cetaceans," Boisserie said.
Boisserie became a hippo specialist while digging with Brunet for early human ancestors in the African republic of Chad. Most hominid fossils earlier than about 2 million years ago are found in association with hippo fossils, implying that they lived in the same biotopes and that hippos later became a source of food for our distant ancestors. Hippos first developed in Africa 16 million years ago and exploded in number around 8 million years ago, Boisserie said.
Now a post-doctoral fellow in the Human Evolution Research Center run by integrative biology professor Tim White at UC Berkeley, Boisserie decided to attempt a resolution of the conflict between the molecular data and the fossil record. New whale fossils discovered in Pakistan in 2001, some of which have limb characteristics similar to artiodactyls, drew a more certain link between whales and artiodactyls. Boisserie and his colleagues conducted a phylogenetic analysis of new and previous hippo, whale and anthracothere fossils and were able to argue persuasively that anthracotheres are the missing link between hippos and cetaceans.
While the common ancestor of cetaceans and anthracotheres probably wasn't fully aquatic, it likely lived around water, he said. And while many anthracotheres appear to have been adapted to life in water, all of the youngest fossils of anthracotheres, hippos and cetaceans are aquatic or semi-aquatic.
"Our study is the most complete to date, including lots of different taxa and a lot of new characteristics," Boisserie said. "Our results are very robust and a good alternative to our findings is still to be formulated."
Brunet is associated with the Laboratoire de Géobiologie, Biochronologie et Paléontologie Humaine at the Université de Poitiers and with the Collège de France in Paris. Lihoreau is a post-doctoral fellow in the Département de Paléontologie of the Université de N'Djaména in Chad.
The work was supported in part by the Mission Paléoanthropologique Franco-Tchadienne, which is co-directed by Brunet and Patrick Vignaud of the Université de Poitiers, and in part by funds to Boisserie from the Fondation Fyssen, the French Ministère des Affaires Etrangères and the National Science Foundation's Revealing Hominid Origins Initiative, which is co-directed by Tim White and Clark Howell of UC Berkeley.
Getting your rocks off is truly important. Without that we have no experiment.
um... gezundheit?
(sorry - those last calculations looked like german from hell)
oh, I got your original point - and agree with it wholeheartedly.
as to me being knowledgeable, well... I would say that as of this point of the thread I have a better understanding of physics AND the shallowness of my understanding thereof than I had, say, fifty posts ago :)
"I say He didn't, and that it is entirely possible God created some life through the evolutionary process. Why is that so hard to see?"
I say God Created everything in six days like the Bible says. It is entirely possible for scientists to be wrong, or to have an agenda. It is also entirely possible for God to direct men what to write in the Bible, including Genesis. Why is that so hard to see? :P
I'll probably not check this thread again, but if you want to chat, freepmail me.
I appreciate your sincerity.
I have, on several threads, stated that there is no problem in my mind with accepting both Genesis and evolution.
God was not writing a biology textbook and could with perfect ease have created an organism with a three billion year history in one day. It is human hubris to say otherwise.
I will add that too much "literalism" leaves us with no explanation of mushrooms or bacteria. The words of Genesis are what people of the time could understand...once again...not a biology text.
Evolution is the only conceivable explanation for life, and so the fact that life exists proves it to be true.........and the fact that life exists in different forms proves it to be true.........and the fact that those different forms have similar molecular structures proves it to be true.........and we know that ancestors had to exist so we'll group the most likely candidates together - and that proves it to true....and so on.
This has most likely already been posted, but it is pertinent to point out the theory of evolution doesn't answer the question of life, the universe, and everything. It doesn't say how or where life came about. It only pertains to the change in the genes of populations of animals that occur over time. To me it sounds like you are setting up a circular argument, for the purpose of knocking it down.
It's as if the scientific organizations are devoted to protecting evolution rather than testing it, and the rules of scientific investigation have been shaped to help them succeed. The fossil record on the whole testifies that whatever evolution might have been, it was not the process of gradual change in continuous lineages that modern science implies.
There is considerable debate of the rate of change; whether it is gradual, or has periods of more rapid change due to environmental stressors, and the like.
As an explanation for modifications in populations, evolution is an empirical doctrine. As an explanation for how complex organisms came into existence in the first place, it's pure philosophy.
That all living things have genes and that these genes change over time in populations of animals can be demonstrated empirically. In this sense micro-evolution is an empirical fact. However, macro-evolution is not a philosophy. It is a scientific theory. It is a model of our understanding of how micro-evolution occurs over vastly long time scales. There is considerable evidence for macro-evolution, though it cannot be demonstarted empirically because, obviously, we don't live long enough. I disagree that the theory of evolution is a philosophy such as metaphysics, the study of being, episteology, the study of knowledge, and ethics, the study of human conduct.
. If scientific empiricism were the only value at stake, evolution would long ago have been limited to "micro" evolution, where it would have no important theological or philosophical implications.
Yet we find all these tantalizing bones in the ground which all modern tests show to be incredibly ancient. Why should they be off-limits? Do the existance of these bones themselves threaten?
If evolutionist accepted the primacy of empiricism, they could still hope eventually to find a naturalistic explanation for everything, but for now they would have to admit that they have made a big mistake. To prevent such a "catastrophe", defenders of evolution must enforce rules of procedure for science that preclude opposing points of view.
See, I just can't agree with this. The theory of evolution does not seek to find a naturalistic explanation for everything. I think that's where you go wrong. There are plenty of biologists and molecular chemists who are men of good faith. I don't personally believe that modern evolutionary theory precludes someone from being moral.
"There are plenty of biologists and molecular chemists who are men of good faith"
It is only the fundamentalist literalist view of the Bible that is threatened by evolution.
I find no conflict in the Bible and science, because evolution doesn't contain any speculation on creation at all. The whole notion that evolution and creation oppose is only present if you insist on a young earth, flood geology and a god that is too dumb to create a system and must create every separate thing individually.
The whole debate is concocted by scam artists to bleed funds from rubes who believe one particular take on the Bible.
I appreciate you being clear about your beliefs. However I believe just as strongly that your ideas are mislead and your concerns misdirected.
Being labeled a 'kook' is dependent on how you approach and respond to the ideas presented in the debate.
"2. The theory of evolution is an exceptional case which involves religious and philosophical questions distinct from those present in other areas of science. Some may fear the social effects of the "religious fanaticism" that I promote. But whenever science is enlisted in some other cause - religious, political, or racial - the result is always that the scientists themselves become fanatics. This is clear to scientist when they think about the mistakes of their predecessors, but they find it hard to believe that their colleagues could be making the same mistakes today."
All scientists are well aware of the POV they bring to the research they do and are more than willing to expose their ideas to peer criticism to minimize the influence their preconceptions have on their research. This is done in all fields of science including evolution.
It appears that most creationists, being primarily threatened by evolution of all the sciences, focus on that particular discipline as recipient of their machinations. One method of justifying their ire is to bifurcate science into evolution on one side and everything not evolution on the other side so they can freely claim evolution is akin to a religion. This puts evolution on the same level as religion and much easier to attack for being unscientific. If this is the case then all fields of science can be considered works of faith since all use the same procedures in developing theoretical frameworks.
It is interesting that those that class evolutionary theory as a faith seem to ignore the fact that evolution draws from many other disciplines to not only verify evidential findings but to develop and test hypotheses. It is no longer possible to separate evolution from other fields of science.
Another interesting development in creationist circles is the division between what they consider micro-evolution and macro-evolution. They have divided evolution into changes that can be accepted and have been observed and changes that can not be accepted even though they too have been observed. Many have gone so far as to limit evolution to just macro-evolution coupled with abiogenesis in an attempt to co-opt micro-evolution for their own belief system.
Scientists seldom use the terms micro-evolution and macro-evolution, preferring to discuss evolution as the single process it is. If scientists do use those terms they are simply used to differentiate between changes in a population that result in speciation from changes that do not result in speciation. The description applies to variation in degree not to a demarcation point between speciation and not-speciation.
There are many things that can falsify evolution, none of which have occurred and many things which make taking a literal reading of the bible impossible most of which have been verified, yet creationists in their infinite wisdom choose to ignore what the physical world presents them in order to avoid questioning their upbringing.
Evolution was not developed to promote atheism nor to lead people to question their faith. It was and is simply a way of explaining observations and making predictions. It is approached scientifically and meets all the standards of modern science. It makes verifiable predictions and improves our understanding of most areas of biology. It is being used successfully in a wide variety of fields of research and development and is expected to solve what were once considered unsurmountable problems in disparate technologies. It is a modern day success story. It is not evil.
Excuse me while I dismount from my soapbox.
The debate is not either/or it is to what degree do they contribute to the change. The debate is also overblown.
"There is considerable evidence for macro-evolution, though it cannot be demonstarted empirically because, obviously, we don't live long enough."
There have been instances of 'macro-evolution', otherwise known as speciation, that have been observed both in the lab and in nature. The latest that I am familiar with in nature is a case of two isolated populations of the same mosquito, one above ground and one in the catacombs of London that can no longer produce progeny. This is speciation.
"The theory of evolution does not seek to find a naturalistic explanation for everything"
The ToE is not Naturalist Philosophy as creationists portray it but Naturalistic Science, as is all science. Science is limited to physical (natural) observation by it's very nature. But, as you say it does not attempt to explain all things, just the things within it's purview.
"I don't personally believe that modern evolutionary theory precludes someone from being moral."
Evolution simply allows us to explain how morals change over time and apply to a specific culture. Atheists are no less moral than the faithful. Evolution does not, by itself, change people into atheists.
It's as if the scientific organizations are devoted to protecting evolution rather than testing it>>>
This bemuses me no end.
Evolution is a theory that is highly speculative in nature and should not be taken as solidly demonstrated scientific fact.
Yipes!
Although it took you a while to say it, you are correct sir...all life is related...through God the Father in heaven...
There are lots of good examples of fossil evidence of common ancestry. Of course, the farther back you go, typically the fewer good fossils you find and there is always margin for error. I have a nice fossil trilobite I use as a paperweight. It's clearly an arthropod, and a distant relative of today's horseshoe crabs. The trilobite is not believed to be a direct ancestor of the horseshoe crab, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that these two creatures shared a common ancestor. All insects are arthropods. Why are there no fossils of honeybees found in the same layers of rock with the trilobites? More to the point, how does searching for this answer lead people away from morality?
Though there is very little we can definitively say about the origin of life on earth, one thing is clear and that is all life (viruses being somewhat an exception here, but even they are not incompatible) uses the same DNA molecule, and some proteins made from these molecules are common in nearly all lifeforms. This infers commonality and relation. Whether this inference necessarily implies a divine creation at work is a matter for personal introspection, but there is certainly a strong connection between all life on earth.
I meant the future - evolution as an explanation for creation carried to it's logical conclusion.
I still think you're making this extrapolation that the more someone learns about evolution, the more atheistic that person becomes. It is well known that science deals with the observable and reproducable. However, in and of itself does not speak on "metaphysical" issues such as ethics and morality. Like any tool, it has the capacity for misuse. I think most scientists are aware of this limitation. Sure there are some people for whom science is their religion, but picking out a few noted athiest scientists and holding them up as a standard is a pretty hasty generalization. I tend to think if someone is arguing science versus religion, that person is asking the wrong questions. That's just my opinion. Personally, I don't see any conflict between faith in the Creator and accepting that the genes of populations of plants and animals change over time.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.