Posted on 02/07/2005 10:09:57 AM PST by conservlib
Did you know that converts are also eligible to become Israeli citizens under the Law of Return? Theycare even listed as Jewish by the Ministry that handles the census.
"On another point do you think anyone who says "Islam is peace" is lying?"
Yes, they are lying. "Islam" is Arabic for 'submission' not 'peace'. The Arabic word for 'peace' is 'salam'.
The Mohemmedan belief is not called 'Salamism' - it is called Islamism.
Mr. Wheatley, you profess to be quite the theological expert yet you cannot even grasp the foundational basics of either Christianity or Islam.
You fail to adequately answer challenges from myself or others to your ridiculous liberal propaganda and then you run away.
Please come back, John. Now that I'm done trying to be nice to you I'd like to taunt and ridicule you. Or, better yet, just let you continue to make an ass out of yourself.
I think the point is that because they are not afraid to die, in fact seek it out as martyrs, that the threat of violence will not stop them. Which brings me back to my contention that the only solution is the complete eradication of Islam and its followers. There can be no half measure.
Good luck to you on your quest to enlighten the world. It seems while you may be wrong, you are indeed never in doubt.
Agreed. If Islam declared peace tomorrow and wanted to hold hands I'd be pretty cool with that.
I just don't see that happening.
So if killing every last Muslim is what we must to do to survive as free people then let's get it over with.
You need to read your comment above and apologize, or not, it is your choice.
I have to admit you know your stuff. You are correct about ((Islam" is Arabic for 'submission' not 'peace'. The Arabic word for 'peace' is 'salam')). However, you are also loud, and disrespectful.
I'll agree that I can be loud and disrespectful of fools and very intolerant of foolishness.
I'm finding myself becoming less and less patient with people who presume to speak for all of Christianity or all of Islam or all of any group.
I'll apologize to you as another person for my little tirade. At the same time I really wish you would not be such an apologist for people who would kill you, your family, and your children with nary a tweak of conscience.
"The IRA is Marxist-Communist and they often rail at the church. They are not a 'Christian' group by any stretch of the imagination."
Politically, the IRA do claim to pursue a socialist agenda, but second only to their Republican (as in anti-monarchist) Nationalist goal is their Catholicism. Historically, the church they have railed at is the Protestant Church, though admittedly, they have increasingly turned against Rome as well. But this has been in response to Rome turning against them and their reckless, murderous methods. Until very recently, Irish Nationalism and Catholicism were utterly indivisable. And even today, IRA and Sinn Fein membership is drawn almost exclusively from Catholic communities. (Protestant Nationalists such as Wolfe Tone and Charles Stuart Parnell are the exceptions that prove the rule.)
It was the persecution of the majority Irish Catholics (who could not own land, could not even hold mass) that led to he Easter Uprising of 1916 against the British Protestants, and the subsequent re-emergence of the outlawed IRB (Irish Republican Brotherhood). In 1932, Eamon de Valera, the Taoiseach (prime minister) of the young Republic, and leader of Sinn Fein, called for "A Catholic Ireland for a Catholic nation", and this remains a central tenet of the modern Nationalist movement. I've personally heard the old rhyme "Up the long ladder / And down the short rope / To Hell with King Billy / And God Bless the Pope" sung in pro-Republican Irish bars in my home town of Liverpool, while visiting relatives in Bangor, Northern Ireland, in Dublin, and in large Irish communities all over the British Isles.
40 years after Valera, during a time of similar discrimination against the Catholic minority of the six counties that make up Northern Ireland, the Provisional IRA emerged from the civil unrest with a new name but the same agenda - a United Ireland, and a Catholic Ireland. At the height of "The Troubles" several Catholic priests from both sides of the border were discovered not only to have harbored members of the IRA, but also to have been actively involved in their terrorism.
On the other side of the debate are the "Loyalist" paramilitary groups, pro-Britain, resolutely Monarchist and exclusively Protestant. The two I mentioned, the UVF (Ulster Volunteer Force), and the UDA (Ulster Defence Association) were formed in direct response to the threat of the IRA, but their methods and rhetoric were the same, guns, bombs and religious intolerance. The UDA in particular gave the IRA a run for their money in the scale of sheer barbarity. Since the ceasefire 11 years ago, these groups have followed the IRA into their current role as drug runners and general thugs.
On the other side of the debate are the "Loyalist" Personally, I'd agree with you that none of these groups are Christian, but that would be because I judge them on their cowardly and murderous actions. However, if you look into their history and alleged aims, you'll find that they each hold one Christian church or another at their core, as justification or even absolution for their deeds. I don't blame the churches, I blame the individuals who have twisted the churches' teachings into a doctrine that permits mass murder. But to claim that there is no link at all between Christianity (in however perverted a form) and the IRA is to display a breathtaking degree of ignorance about the subject (that you’ve even never heard of the UDA hardly helps your credibility on the subject). If you were to make such a claim in Belfast they’d probably fall off their chairs laughing.
Sorry I had to post that in sections, but for some reason FR won't let me post more than a couple of hundred words at a time.
The significant difference here is that the IRA and the other groups are not acting on the edicts (fatwa) of respected clerics and, therefore, if they try to call their criminal acts 'religious' then they are heretic.
The Muslims, such as Al Qa'aeda, act at the direction of fatwa from Muslim clerics, making their acts religious in nature.
Were respected clerics to issue a fatwa calling for the arrest and deaths of terrorists the terrorism would cease tommorow.
I've been waiting for such a fatwa since September 11, 2001.
"The significant difference here is that the IRA and the other groups are not acting on the edicts (fatwa) of respected clerics and, therefore, if they try to call their criminal acts 'religious' then they are heretic."
I agree with 90% of that, there is a big difference between the singularly religious goal of Al Qaeda and the disparate goals of the IRA. In the case of Al Qaeda, religion is their very raison d'etre. With the IRA it is one of a number of issues. However, several Irish "Holy Men" have not only called followers to arms (Rev. Ian Paisley does it to this day), but have even actively taken up arms themselves.
But mainly I was simply answering your initial question: Name one Christian terrorist group (I gave you three), and responding to your claim that the IRA were not Christian "by any stretch of the imagination", which was spectacularly wide of the mark.
Yes, he is. He is lying to accomadate spineless apologists who want to pretend that the only bad people in the world are Americans.
I only voted for Bush because the right man for this job, Theodore 'Teddy' Roosevelt is long cold in his grave.
America will do nothing about the threat of Islam until they do something much worse to us than 9/11. Quite obviously, 3,000 dead Americans are not enough to galvanize the rest of the country to defeat an insiduos enemy for whom 9/11 is only the most recent battle in a war that started with the death of Muhammed in 632 AD. As soon as Muhammed was dead his follower Abu Bakr launched the war of Islamic Conquest against the rest of the world.
The Muslims currently are fighting fifteen wars of aggression around the world.
Only one of them is against us.
"Religion of Peace" my ass.
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