Don't help, Border Patrol says

www.azstarnet.com/Online service of The Arizona Daily Star ^ | 1/30/05 | AZ Ranger's Wifey

[AZ Rangers Wifey]

Sector Chief Michael Nicley said volunteers who try to patrol the area could hinder operations and draw away Border Patrol agents from priorities if they encounter problems.

The Minuteman Project, headed by Jim Gilchrist in California, plans to bring volunteers in April for a monthlong air and ground patrol of Cochise County.

The 83 miles of Cochise County's border with Mexico are among the busiest for apprehending illegal immigrants.

Nicley said he has concerns about the air operations being proposed by the Minuteman Project since part of the airspace in Cochise County is earmarked for the Border Patrol.

Also, Nicley said the project's volunteers are not trained in law enforcement.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

Apparently you enjoyed the Super Bowl.

I may have but im not the neanderthal you think i am !

[Ben Ficklin]

For many years FR had a "posting guidelines" section. That section may, or may not, still exist.

"Thread Jumping" was the term used to decribe, and forbid, the pursuit of an individual poster to other, unrelated threads.

[JustAnotherSavage]

"Start spreading the idea of a privately-funded fence/barricade."

I think yours is a good idea. Funds would be easy to raise.

[JustAnotherSavage]

" trouble will follow you for the entirety of your occupation of our public lands"


If that policy were followed for the illegals,instead of US citizens we wouldn't have this problem. The armed latino gangs are now in Northern California raising their drugs on national forest land.

[B4Ranch]

"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it."

- Edward R. Murrow

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Mind if I ask you a few questions?

You say that you don't want the assistance of 'untrained' and of course, uncontrolled 'Mericans in your neighborhood to assist in the reporting of UDA's which I prefer to call by the unPC and more accurate name of illegal aliens. As illegal suggests, they are criminals.

You say that you and other local residents are doing a tremendous civil service by taking note of strangers in your area and that you make numerous calls to the local law enforcement personnel (Border Patrol and other qualified legal agencies) about these illegal aliens.

How come your local officers aren't able to gather up all of these criminals?

What do they need to do a better job? Money, personnel, what?

>>) I spoke to a group of Border Patrol Agents this morning <<

Would you mind giving us a bit more detail here. Were the people you spoke to agents who do the actual arresting or were they management officers?

I have read two different versions of this. Management doesn't want assistance and the field agents do.

What is your explanation for the difference here?

>>"Minutemen" may be well intentioned others may have other motives<<

I don't think you have to be too concerned here. If someone is going to come to your town knowing that will be an increased level of observation going on, I seriously doubt that they would attempt to assist terrorism or drug dealers in any manner whatsoever. Nor do I think that knowing probably everything they do will be videoed by someone, I don't think there will be any abuse of illegals going on.

I don't think these volunteers are going to be a wild eyed group looking for confrontations with anyone, American citizens or illegal aliens. My understanding is that they are going to observe, film and report any suspected illegal activity to the local law enforcement and/or the Border patrol allowing the "trained officers" to make the investigations, determinations and if required, the apprehensions.

If there is a shortage of "approved officers" to make the investigations, determinations and if required, the apprehensions, and the illegal aliens can continue on their journey to find work deeper into America unhindered, I am positive that this will be videoed and shown on various Internet websites and in their State and Federal Representatives offices, perhaps on the floor of Congress also.

I am confident that Sheriff Deaver will be informed as to just exactly who is going to be permitted to assist the local watchdogs who thought up this plan and who has been told to hightail it out of the area. Leave that to Sheriff Deaver to handle.

I have seen numerous pictures from your area of trash, clothing, empty water bottles, papers, back packs, you name it, yes unburied feces too scattered about which certainly isn't helping the fly numbers reported by various newspapers.

There is reports of hundreds of tons of trash annually being left behind by these illegal on their journey Northward. Now if you would prefer this to continue, I don't think too many other 'Mericans will agree this is the correct situation for the Lower Arizona desert environment/

Perhaps you should be looking in a mirror asking yourself if the current situation is acceptable to you or do you require some assistance there to once again make your home a safe and comfortable place to live and raise your families?

I have been writing about the civil and financial costs to America of the illegal alien situation for slightly more than four years. I have been begging my Representatives and President Bush to make a serious effort at correcting these problems. So far, their efforts aren't much more than I could do by myself. Not much praise to say about correcting this situation, is there?

I am going to presume that you are a local business person, probably in the retail section and that you perhaps do reap a financial benefit from these illegal aliens passing through your area. Could this be correct and does it have any weight on your comments?

Now, if you and your group of local watchdogs were able to see to the apprehension of each and every illegal alien who comes into your town, then you wouldn't hear a word from from me. Not a peep! Why? Because I wouldn't have them in my area committing violent crimes, sending their kids to my local schools and hospitals, dealing drugs, etc. Illegal aliens wouldn't have become such a concern across the entire America, would it?

You see Nevada has had a tax rise of $900 million dollars, and this it attributable to illegal aliens! God only knows what the total Federal tax rise is that they have cost America. The Agency that would normally do such numbers for us has seen some major changes to hide the true costs under the Bush Administration.

Since you are on "the other side of the fence" from me in this matter, I am going to ask you to do all FR.com website members and lurkers a favor. Would you please, starting a few days before the "Minutemen" are supposed to arrive take a few pictures, talk to your neighbors and police officers. Ask them to keep a sharp eye out for these "Minutemen" and to call you with their reports of infractions and any unwelcome behavior.

Then would you start a thread on FR and give us daily situation reports, or perhaps twice daily reports about just how things are going. I am looking for any and all SITREPS that you find distasteful or perhaps in your judgment, illegal.

You could include anything you like if you wish . LOL

I, personally am willing to help you with any financial costs that you might bear from giving us these SITREPS. Do you need film for your camera, help with your phone bill, name it and if it is a reasonable cost, I'll reimburse you.

See my hope is that these volunteers can print such a sad picture of the Federal efforts to control illegal immigration that we can have some recalls and replace the inefficient officials with ones who can actually read and comprehend the TITLE 8 CHAPTER 12 SUBCHAPTER II— IMMIGRATION Part IV—Inspection, Apprehension, Examination, Exclusion, and Removal of the US CODE COLLECTION.

I'm looking for our Representatives to push this to the top of their budget page and actually provide the funds needed to protect America's borders. We've all had enough empty promises from our politicians, local state and federal.

Lets make them obey their Oath of Office or get out so we can put someone in their chair who cares about the safety of your family and mine. We don't have armed guards to protect us like they do.

I am looking for much more efficiency in government not the slacked off individuals we have now who are taking us all for fools.

One final question. Why can't you return fire across the border if you can see the person who is shooting at you? This idea of run and tuck tail is kind of hard for an old Vet to take.

________________________________________________________________________________________


Former President Teddy Roosevelt had this to say about those who believe we should march lock step with the President: "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

[JustAnotherSavage]

""To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Teddy Roosevelt

I hadn't seen that one.

[B4Ranch]

This is the one that stikes the deepest with me when our leaders don't tell us the facts.

"What is a PATRIOT?"
PATRIOTS are not "Revolutionaries" trying to overthrow the government of the United States.

PATRIOTS are "Counter-Revolutionaries" trying to prevent the government of the United States from overthrowing the Constitution of the United States. - Unknown Author

[Ajnin]

The Border Patrol uses the term "UDA"

Actually we call them illegal aliens.

[jmc813]

This is a local self-governance issue. Why not let the good people of Arizona deal with the Minuteman Project?

[Cultural Jihad]

Indeed they shall.

[AZ Rangers Wifey]

Firstly if you do not like my posts, then avoid them.
Nextly, nice plane (if the border patrol allows you to use the air space). *Something to remember what goes up may come down real hard in a real bad mess after being shot up by the Mexicans.

When I watch them drag the last of your bloated maggot infested bodies (or pieces of your bodies) out of that desert, I will put on my Glenn Miller records, have a glass of sherry to my husband's memory & know that at least I did not lie to you about anything I have said in my 300 word diatribes.

In the meantime, any of you who come thinking to make a great big difference in 30 days of disorganized occupation of my home county (who are dimwitted enough to let themselves be lured into rifle scope range of some dirty crap-bag of a Mexican drug smuggler) will probably get what they may not expect. I have already said, fine come to Cochise County, but do not come on some of the ranches out here because you will not be welcome. My ranch is one of them.

If you don't like this, then go back to your little club and say mean things about me, you know that's really been worrying us. You people are so deluded this is like trying to reason with a group of naughty spoiled children. Grown men cry like children when they know they are about to die, is that the phenomena I am witnessing here?

[AZ Rangers Wifey]

Thank you for you kind remarks. Unfortunately some of the people who claimed to want to help with the border down here have tortured some of the people they detained. One has carried his firearm onto Federal land then lied to Law Enforcement when asked about the illegally concealed weapon, two crimes. Our local groups will not observe the laws when they "help" please read about some of the acts of torture and violence that some of them have used on their detainees.

I am not in favor of illegals, but I do not see it ever being necessary to torture someone. When a citizen of this country does it, the United States Government is then sued and forced to pay for their citizens' actions.

The influx of this so called group of Minutemen? Ah as one of the men on the border patrol mentioned, it's a two edged sword, drawing publicity and attention to the problem... BUT at the same time creating a whole new set of problems for the organized efforts to protect US Citizens from harm as they make their journey out to the desert with no training, health screenings or credentials to do the work of a US Government Agent.

The "leaders" of this group that call themselves the Minutemen are from California originally, why didn't they work on their own borders in California?


If they are going to seal the borders I hope they mean to seal that Canadian border too. I see that area to be as dangerous for this country as the Mexican border. I hardly ever hear anyone complain about the Canadian border or plan to go up there to try to help repel people from crossing that border. There are a lot more Muslims in Canada than there are in Mexico.

[L.N. Smithee]

Firstly if you do not like my posts, then avoid them.

Your monitor must have been so covered with your own froth that you didn't read what I wrote properly. I didn't say anything about 'not liking your posts' -- I simply wanted you to address the fact that the reason for the Minutemen is the ineptitude of the Border Patrol and all-talk-do-nothings like Asa Hutchinson. You have not done that throughout this thread that I can tell -- you have simply pissed and moaned about the possibility that some Minutemen might leave some dookie behind where you might step in it, and then feigned concern for the safety of the Minutemen while simultaneously suggesting you would laugh at their assassination by Mexican criminals. To wit:

When I watch them drag the last of your bloated maggot infested bodies (or pieces of your bodies) out of that desert, I will put on my Glenn Miller records, have a glass of sherry to my husband's memory & know that at least I did not lie to you about anything I have said in my 300 word diatribes.

Maybe you haven't lied, but you certainly hadn't told the truth. You don't seem to be able to handle the fact that the status quo is NOT sufficient to protect this country. At least the Minutemen KNOW there's a problem. You seem to think the problem is that someone questions the Bush Admin's bungling of the border. History will judge him harshly if his victory in the middle east is followed up by a more devastating terrorist attack from our southern flank. Smell the coffee.

You have added nothing to this debate but vitriol, spite, and a touch of bigotry. Try some logic in your next post, if you're capable of it.

[AZ Rangers Wifey]

As the old saying goes, when you ASSuME... I am retired (now semi-retired because I have been asked about legal assistance for the Cochise County Citizens' Coalition), I am an attorney, I do not profit from having illegals cross the border. I have no problem looking at my face in the mirror nor do I have trouble sleeping at night knowing the Border Patrol is protecting my property. (Along with the monies and sensors and other personal protection I have put on my property at my own expense so I could know what the situation is on MY land).

The Agents that I have spoken with work out here in the desert and you are being misinformed when you are told that they do no apprehend the illegals, the officers I have spoken with on this matter ARE ARRESTING Border Patrol Agents who work in my area.

I do not think that I claimed to be doing a great civil service by calling the Law on the illegals what are YOU talking about? I do what I have to in order to protect my home, as is my right. If I see a group that is not on my property, I also call on them too, but I do not actively go out hunting human prey lest I should become the hunted. It is dangerous in this desert for many reasons.

My explanation for the differences in the opinions of the Border Patrol Agents' Official statement and what you have read from the Minutemen? Why don't you contact the Border Patrol yourself and ask them what they think if you cannot take their management's opinion for a fair representation of what their group wants, needs or desires in regards to the Minutemen and all vigilantes whether they are carrying cameras or their squirrel guns.

Larry Deaver, my husband and he were friends. I have never had the opportunity to ask him how he felt about the Minutemen, but I do know that he has been alerted to this situation. I could call him and get his comments for you, but since you have tried to impugn my credibility why would you believe what I have to say? Get your own remarks from Larry Deaver, I think you will find he will not let the citizens in his jurisdiction be tormented by a group that may or may not come into town all wild eyed and crazy.

On to the question of trash, remember the pictures you saw of the desert all trashed up? Well take that and multiply it by 10 and you will know what the Minutemen will leave behind. Everyone throws their trash out and just one lit cigarette butt could really light this area up! Just think the Minutemen may be able to claim responsibility for the wild fires in our area this year, (won't that be a distinction for which they will be proud)?

NO retail is not any part of my motivation, I am trying to protect my home.

One final question. Why can't you return fire across the border if you can see the person who is shooting at you? This idea of run and tuck tail is kind of hard for an old Vet to take.

Sir, you may as well draw a bullseye on your shirt, if you shoot across that border, you may have the Border Patrol Agents arresting you on this side of the border, I don't think it's right either, but I have been told several times "They were shooting at us, but we are not allowed to return fire!" Sometimes I wonder why give them guns at all?

I do think a lot of the difficulty is that the agents are shackled by the rules of trying to collect and return illegals, I do not really know the answer, but I think it's going to have to come from heaven or Washington or some place besides a place that will burn the top of your head if you don't wear your hat.

[Missouri]

I saw Gilchirst on Hannity and Colms, and Scarbourgh Country. If anything, he seemed apologetic about having to do this especially when the issue of "carrying" was brought up. If wish the fools in the media and the FROBL would have the actual "non-citizens" (illegal aliens) go through such hoops.

[AZ Rangers Wifey]

I told the truth, a great number of the citizens here are objecting to the arrival of the Minutemen. I am working for that group of legal citizens to assist with any civil matters that may need to be addressed on their behalf. I am not even the only attorney who has offered these folks free assistance, I am one who has posted here in the past, and I am posting here now. I did not just join this message board.

You have been lied to, but not by me. I have tried to give you tidbits of information about the desert so that you could be informed not a stumbling bumbling group of "wish ah coulda been a rootin tootin gun slingin' cowboy in Tombstone back in the day. When I coulda had a shot of Old Overholt then shoot a hole in the ceiling of the saloon with mah sidearm". Don't come down here expecting brothels either because they may exist but they are NOW illegal in Tombstone and the rest of Cochise County. Those vendors in Tombstone are going to love you folks and your money in their tourist city. (Laughing now!) That's almost worse than hoping you get what you deserve in the desert. There will be so many Wyatt Earps on the streets of Tombstone it will look like "Wyatt Earp Days" all over again.

By the way "bloated, maggot infested and body parts" are what the search and rescue teams usually find out here when they go on the "humanitarian" missions to save people who are lost in the desert. Once again, NOT a lie. After the javalina (peccary), and vultures get finished with you, we may be able to send some of you all home in big ziplock bags.

Come on down, but do not expect it to be easy or fun. Do expect that the water may cause some slight intestinal distress, this may or may not happen to you. Do not shoot or otherwise kill the rattlesnakes, they are protected by law. There are a variety of rattlesnakes here including the Mojave Green Rattlers that are more toxic than the Western Diamondback variety. The Scorpions do get into dwellings, they love the folds in a blanket or the inside of a dark shoe, they can be very painful and toxic too. Wear a hat and bring your Mastercard/Visa.

We will survive your mission here as we have survived others and "their divine calling" to perform their little piss pot missions here. If this was an original thought then the citizens may actually be willing to cooperate and welcome you, but we've been here and done all of this before, I can't even guess how many times. This is not an original idea.

By the way, when you leave here in May or however long you stay, I will still be here unless you have burned me out...and the Mexicans will still be on the other side waiting and watching. Your divine mission will all be one huge waste of time efforts and resources. If you aimed your group at Washington, it may do more good.


Just an opinion, now would you like to take that away from me as well as invade my home? Here have a cup of coffee on me and consider that the "devastating terrorist attack" that you mention will probably come from the Canadian border. Is that coffee tasting good now? Well think about which border is closer to Wall Street? Which areas of this country were targeted on 9/11? Not Arizona, California, New Mexico or Florida...New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, so you Minutemen had better be more "VIGILANT" in the Northern part of this country as well, don't you think? Wouldn't want you to miss the steady flow of Fundamentalist Muslims that come into our country everyday and settle themselves in NY or New England, undocumented illegals and terrorists too! I think the Minutemen are taking their eyes off the real prize so they can come down here and play cowboy.

[B4Ranch]

From the tone of your reply I guess you've had a rough day.

In the morning, why not reread my initial reply to you and then with a fresh cup of coffee in your hand we'll have a calm discussion about this situation. Okay?

[AZ Rangers Wifey]

Why ask Gilchrist about the carry laws in Arizona, he is from California! Jim Gilchrist should have his associate from Tombstone do those interviews regarding the laws on carrying guns in Arizona. He would be the real "resident authority" with his CRIMINAL history of lying to Federal Officers and being arrested in Arizona for firearms violations on Federal Property.

Gilchrist's friend in Tombstone is a convicted Felon now, how many of the Minutemen will come home with a Felony Conviction on their records because they are being led into danger, and carrying guns?

[AZ Rangers Wifey]

Thank you, extremely rough day. We will have another try at it in the light of day. Things have been more difficult since I moved back out here, I openly admit to a bit of stress (and probably some insensitive remarks). Of course I do not want anyone here (or anyone who comes here as a US Citizen) to be harmed.

I can only be reminded of years gone by when I would tell my children, you will break your neck or put your eye out if you do that.

I can happily report that my children grew up sound and solid no broken necks and they each have both of their eyes, so I have been wrong before.

[investigateworld]

OK guys, there will be no running with scissors!