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"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it."

- Edward R. Murrow

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Mind if I ask you a few questions?

You say that you don't want the assistance of 'untrained' and of course, uncontrolled 'Mericans in your neighborhood to assist in the reporting of UDA's which I prefer to call by the unPC and more accurate name of illegal aliens. As illegal suggests, they are criminals.

You say that you and other local residents are doing a tremendous civil service by taking note of strangers in your area and that you make numerous calls to the local law enforcement personnel (Border Patrol and other qualified legal agencies) about these illegal aliens.

How come your local officers aren't able to gather up all of these criminals?

What do they need to do a better job? Money, personnel, what?

>>) I spoke to a group of Border Patrol Agents this morning <<

Would you mind giving us a bit more detail here. Were the people you spoke to agents who do the actual arresting or were they management officers?

I have read two different versions of this. Management doesn't want assistance and the field agents do.

What is your explanation for the difference here?

>>"Minutemen" may be well intentioned others may have other motives<<

I don't think you have to be too concerned here. If someone is going to come to your town knowing that will be an increased level of observation going on, I seriously doubt that they would attempt to assist terrorism or drug dealers in any manner whatsoever. Nor do I think that knowing probably everything they do will be videoed by someone, I don't think there will be any abuse of illegals going on.

I don't think these volunteers are going to be a wild eyed group looking for confrontations with anyone, American citizens or illegal aliens. My understanding is that they are going to observe, film and report any suspected illegal activity to the local law enforcement and/or the Border patrol allowing the "trained officers" to make the investigations, determinations and if required, the apprehensions.

If there is a shortage of "approved officers" to make the investigations, determinations and if required, the apprehensions, and the illegal aliens can continue on their journey to find work deeper into America unhindered, I am positive that this will be videoed and shown on various Internet websites and in their State and Federal Representatives offices, perhaps on the floor of Congress also.

I am confident that Sheriff Deaver will be informed as to just exactly who is going to be permitted to assist the local watchdogs who thought up this plan and who has been told to hightail it out of the area. Leave that to Sheriff Deaver to handle.

I have seen numerous pictures from your area of trash, clothing, empty water bottles, papers, back packs, you name it, yes unburied feces too scattered about which certainly isn't helping the fly numbers reported by various newspapers.

There is reports of hundreds of tons of trash annually being left behind by these illegal on their journey Northward. Now if you would prefer this to continue, I don't think too many other 'Mericans will agree this is the correct situation for the Lower Arizona desert environment/

Perhaps you should be looking in a mirror asking yourself if the current situation is acceptable to you or do you require some assistance there to once again make your home a safe and comfortable place to live and raise your families?

I have been writing about the civil and financial costs to America of the illegal alien situation for slightly more than four years. I have been begging my Representatives and President Bush to make a serious effort at correcting these problems. So far, their efforts aren't much more than I could do by myself. Not much praise to say about correcting this situation, is there?

I am going to presume that you are a local business person, probably in the retail section and that you perhaps do reap a financial benefit from these illegal aliens passing through your area. Could this be correct and does it have any weight on your comments?

Now, if you and your group of local watchdogs were able to see to the apprehension of each and every illegal alien who comes into your town, then you wouldn't hear a word from from me. Not a peep! Why? Because I wouldn't have them in my area committing violent crimes, sending their kids to my local schools and hospitals, dealing drugs, etc. Illegal aliens wouldn't have become such a concern across the entire America, would it?

You see Nevada has had a tax rise of $900 million dollars, and this it attributable to illegal aliens! God only knows what the total Federal tax rise is that they have cost America. The Agency that would normally do such numbers for us has seen some major changes to hide the true costs under the Bush Administration.

Since you are on "the other side of the fence" from me in this matter, I am going to ask you to do all FR.com website members and lurkers a favor. Would you please, starting a few days before the "Minutemen" are supposed to arrive take a few pictures, talk to your neighbors and police officers. Ask them to keep a sharp eye out for these "Minutemen" and to call you with their reports of infractions and any unwelcome behavior.

Then would you start a thread on FR and give us daily situation reports, or perhaps twice daily reports about just how things are going. I am looking for any and all SITREPS that you find distasteful or perhaps in your judgment, illegal.

You could include anything you like if you wish . LOL

I, personally am willing to help you with any financial costs that you might bear from giving us these SITREPS. Do you need film for your camera, help with your phone bill, name it and if it is a reasonable cost, I'll reimburse you.

See my hope is that these volunteers can print such a sad picture of the Federal efforts to control illegal immigration that we can have some recalls and replace the inefficient officials with ones who can actually read and comprehend the TITLE 8 CHAPTER 12 SUBCHAPTER II— IMMIGRATION Part IV—Inspection, Apprehension, Examination, Exclusion, and Removal of the US CODE COLLECTION.

I'm looking for our Representatives to push this to the top of their budget page and actually provide the funds needed to protect America's borders. We've all had enough empty promises from our politicians, local state and federal.

Lets make them obey their Oath of Office or get out so we can put someone in their chair who cares about the safety of your family and mine. We don't have armed guards to protect us like they do.

I am looking for much more efficiency in government not the slacked off individuals we have now who are taking us all for fools.

One final question. Why can't you return fire across the border if you can see the person who is shooting at you? This idea of run and tuck tail is kind of hard for an old Vet to take.

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Former President Teddy Roosevelt had this to say about those who believe we should march lock step with the President: "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

As the old saying goes, when you ASSuME... I am retired (now semi-retired because I have been asked about legal assistance for the Cochise County Citizens' Coalition), I am an attorney, I do not profit from having illegals cross the border. I have no problem looking at my face in the mirror nor do I have trouble sleeping at night knowing the Border Patrol is protecting my property. (Along with the monies and sensors and other personal protection I have put on my property at my own expense so I could know what the situation is on MY land).

The Agents that I have spoken with work out here in the desert and you are being misinformed when you are told that they do no apprehend the illegals, the officers I have spoken with on this matter ARE ARRESTING Border Patrol Agents who work in my area.

I do not think that I claimed to be doing a great civil service by calling the Law on the illegals what are YOU talking about? I do what I have to in order to protect my home, as is my right. If I see a group that is not on my property, I also call on them too, but I do not actively go out hunting human prey lest I should become the hunted. It is dangerous in this desert for many reasons.

My explanation for the differences in the opinions of the Border Patrol Agents' Official statement and what you have read from the Minutemen? Why don't you contact the Border Patrol yourself and ask them what they think if you cannot take their management's opinion for a fair representation of what their group wants, needs or desires in regards to the Minutemen and all vigilantes whether they are carrying cameras or their squirrel guns.

Larry Deaver, my husband and he were friends. I have never had the opportunity to ask him how he felt about the Minutemen, but I do know that he has been alerted to this situation. I could call him and get his comments for you, but since you have tried to impugn my credibility why would you believe what I have to say? Get your own remarks from Larry Deaver, I think you will find he will not let the citizens in his jurisdiction be tormented by a group that may or may not come into town all wild eyed and crazy.

On to the question of trash, remember the pictures you saw of the desert all trashed up? Well take that and multiply it by 10 and you will know what the Minutemen will leave behind. Everyone throws their trash out and just one lit cigarette butt could really light this area up! Just think the Minutemen may be able to claim responsibility for the wild fires in our area this year, (won't that be a distinction for which they will be proud)?

NO retail is not any part of my motivation, I am trying to protect my home.

One final question. Why can't you return fire across the border if you can see the person who is shooting at you? This idea of run and tuck tail is kind of hard for an old Vet to take.

Sir, you may as well draw a bullseye on your shirt, if you shoot across that border, you may have the Border Patrol Agents arresting you on this side of the border, I don't think it's right either, but I have been told several times "They were shooting at us, but we are not allowed to return fire!" Sometimes I wonder why give them guns at all?

I do think a lot of the difficulty is that the agents are shackled by the rules of trying to collect and return illegals, I do not really know the answer, but I think it's going to have to come from heaven or Washington or some place besides a place that will burn the top of your head if you don't wear your hat.

In reply to your questions, I will try here. I hope we are talking about post #105.

Yes, the Border Patrol is greatly understaffed, doing a VERY dangerous job and sure, we could use more funds and manpower (which does not appear to be coming as promised, but being dribbled over us like someone sprinkling salt onto our wounds).

Most of the agents and their families that I know personally are ARRESTING AGENTS. They can only do what the Government allows as they are Representatives of our Government. Now if there is a problem with these limitations (and I think there may be) perhaps it should be addressed on a Federal level, as the local officers are literally under fire here. I would not object to Military Troops on the border. Trained organized professionals, not a group of irate citizens or as sasafras called them (and so appropriately) "VIGILANTES".

Some of the MMP may be people with good intentions, but some may have other motives for being here. I suspect that they would enjoy having Dan Rather as one of their embedded journalists, good idea? Could be, it appears that at least a couple of members in their group have lied, and how do you know they are not lying to you as well?

Could you tell me what a video tape of the illegal aliens is going to prove? We know they are coming, we are undermanned to stop them, and the knowledge that there is an illegal that you wish to follow on their journey thru our country in itself is ludicrous when you could report them at anytime and have them sent back where they came from.

"Since you are on "the other side of the fence" from me in this matter, I am going to ask you to do all FR.com website members and lurkers a favor. Would you please, starting a few days before the "Minutemen" are supposed to arrive take a few pictures, talk to your neighbors and police officers. Ask them to keep a sharp eye out for these "Minutemen" and to call you with their reports of infractions and any unwelcome behavior."

Sir, their presence alone is unwelcome behavior. We will be watching, but when we make reports we will be making them to Larry Deaver and his deputies or the Border Patrol. As I mentioned earlier, I may leave this up to the others, I will approach some of the folks in the group that I represent and ask them if they would like to report "unwelcome behavior to you via Internet", I suspect most of them would say if you are on the other side of the fence that you could NEVER appreciate it when OUR property lines are crossed and OUR homes and properties are damaged or OUR livestock are injured by this group (as has happened in "missions" of this type in the past), but I will ask if anyone in my group would like to make a day to day report to you.

When you offer money, could that mean that would you like to indemnify the MMP? Who will? That is the information that we really need to know. Who will pay for this group's inevitable damage to our homes, property or citizens?

Unlike some Arizonans I have been frugal and have all the monies and resources that I need to hound the MMP as far and as long as it amuses me to do so, if I should wish to do so, (and I do not). I do not need film for my camera or money to watch them, but I will ask some of the others in my group. I seriously doubt any of them will accept your offer because the majority of them hold deed to their lands, and feel they have a right to protect that which they have paid for and built by the sweat of their brow.

Now you have speculated that there will be no abuse of the illegal aliens, how can you be certain of that? Personally, I do not advocate torture, but once that cat's out of the bag, it may be more than the issue of the MMP vs Border Patrol or Citizens, the Mexican Gov. could ask for your extradition so you can spend some time in one of their prisons.

No Minuteman holds any claim to that which is OURS by legal deed because WE purchased or inherited these properties. At one time I loved living out here, then when the vigilantes from California and their groups started in on us that has become a constant source of annoyance. For all the wisdom that some of these groups claim to have, it seems that they prefer not to read as well as the illegal aliens. *Remember I said the illegals usually avoid my property because it is posted, that is not true with the VIGILANTES. They wander thru my property as if they think they pay the taxes on it (and they don't). I have had more reason to take up my rifle for Americans than I have for illegals in the past few years. When confronted some of these vigilante types have been rude, unsupervised armed and literally had to escorted from my land by Law Enforcement. I suppose I have been called about any name that most of you could think of and all because I want to enjoy some peace and quiet on my property.

While we are speaking of taxes and expenses, do you think that the efforts on the border to detain and transfer and medically treat illegal aliens has not had a serious impact on Cochise County and our taxes? If you think that, then you would be wrong.

The issue of the Minutemen is merely another one of those flies that you spoke of that needs to be swatted down. They are coming here hoping to do something that all of the other vigilantes including the ones who are out there all the time are unable to do without breaking the law. Maybe use your monies to help support the CHANGE of border policies? If I knew any pre-packaged solutions to this problem of illegal aliens, I would give it to you right here and now.

Perhaps the people who will be caring for my ranch will report to you, if the MMP only stay on Private Properties in the area then it's likely that we can avoid problems with them.

I don't think it's right that the Border Agents cannot return fire across the Mexican Border. I never have, still the fact remains that they have been told not to, and they are doing the best they can within the confines of Governmental guidelines. I try to stay out of range of them and also try to remember that we are NOT at war with Mexico (at this time).

B4Ranch, did I answer your questions? I do not intend to be rude, if it was not for others that came before the Minutemen who convinced so many of us that many of the Vigilantes are bad... IF so many of them had not already tried to make the citizens out here their victims (and many of us are tired of that)...This is not the first "mission" near our homes, there is a group that is constantly out there damaging our property, tearing up fences and actually trespassing by going where they are NOT welcome, this group all claim to be Americans who are protecting the border (and if our property gets torn up in the process, so what?) Well we are gearing up to have a so what for them, that's what!

If we do not have the right to speak up or defend our property, then how or who will stand up to deny us that right? The Law is on our side, if they damage our homes or property we will have to use the only means of legal retaliation that are available to us, and that would be the Court system. This could all be avoided if these great Patriots would stage their protests where there are already reporters anxious to give the politicians BAD press. I do not think you are going to find very many reporters wandering around out here in the desert unless they bring Dan Rather with them.

In closing, thank you for your offer, I will at next week's meeting mention that you have offered to pay for people to watch the MMP, but I hope you are not disappointed when you do not get a lot of takers for that offer. They will be watching them but the reports they make about them will probably be to Law Enforcement, not an interested person from the Internet, although I do find your offer of funding for such a project to be a kind one. Thank you.

If I have missed the point of you post or questions, I will be glad to better understand when I come home from Phoenix. I apologize that it has taken me so long to read over your post again and try not to seem hostile. It could be that if I were to meet some of you in a neutral venue, we could agree on a great many things regarding the sad lack of support for our Border Patrol here.

I have felt that my views are being attacked here but that is not important. The important issue here is a solution to the REAL problem of illegal aliens (this includes Canadians who may be in our country illegally) will NOT be solved by Jim Jones GilCHRIST, he is just another huckster from California who wants to sell you all some snake oil, and wants to conquer the legal residents of Cochise County who want to resist yet another group of VIGILANTES in our community. This is my opinion and generally represents some of the Citizens in Cochise County.