Posted on 01/25/2005 9:49:36 AM PST by missyme
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- A Republican state lawmaker countered a Senate colleague's dispersal of an anti-polygamy book by passing out folders defending the practice as natural and not necessarily harmful.
Sen. Carlene Walker, of Cottonwood Heights, said she was offended by the title of the book "God's Brothel" that Senate Minority Whip Ron Allen distributed, and she wanted to balance its views.
"Polygamy is a frequent, and arguably, from a historical perspective, a most normal, human sexual relationship throughout most of human history in a majority of societies around the world," reads one of the passages in the folder.
It came from the Centennial Park Action Committee, a group of women near the Utah-Arizona state line who say it's unfair to characterize polygamists as "oppressed," "abused" or "brainwashed."
Walker said she has known polygamists who are "fine, honest, educated, wonderful people."
"To characterize the whole polygamy community as abusive to children and the welfare system is inaccurate," Walker said.
Allen says people are misunderstanding his point of demonstrating abuses in polygamous relationships, and he passed out 104 copies of the book to legislators because he wanted them to understand polygamy isn't harmless.
"It's not fair to say we should ignore it," he said.
Allen helped enact a child bigamy law in 2003 that made forced marriages of minors a second-degree felony punishable by one to 15 years in prison.
Before, the offense carried only 30 days in jail, and was rarely enforced, Allen said. He said the marrying of teenage girls was a common practice among some of Utah's isolated polygamist communities until the state served notice it was cracking down.
The book, written by Salt Lake City author Andrea Moore-Emmett, tells the stories of 18 women who claim they suffered rape, incest and violence in polygamous communities.
Copies of the book were donated by publisher Pince-Nez Press, of San Francisco.
Polygamy is among the teachings of Mormon church founder Joseph Smith. But the practice was abandoned by the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints more than a century ago as the Utah territory sought statehood.
The Utah Constitution bans polygamy and the mainstream Mormon church now excommunicates those who advocate it. But it's believed that tens of thousands in Utah and more than 30,000 across the West continue to practice
They didn't formally ban it, but they did make the requirements so stringent that it became for all practical purposes impossible.
This restriction also didn't affect anyone other than Ashkenazi Jews. I have read that polygamy still occasionally occurs among Sephardic and Yemeni Jews even today.
Please spare us your exegesis. It's pathetic.
How many wives did God create for Adam? More than one?
How many wives did Jesus' mother share with Joseph?
EVERY time Jesus talked about marriage he talked about and used illustrations and examples of 1 wife to 1 husband.
Men in the Old Testament demanded plural wives just like men today do and just like Sodomites demand marriage - because of their sin and their sinful nature and their sinful hearts.
I have read "God's Brothel". You should get a copy and read it. The Morman church is steeped in sinful polygamy and still believes in it.
Read the book.
Polygamy cheapens all marriage, destroys families and turns half of our population into slaves.
It's a wicked, sinful, perverted institution.
Thank you for your honesty, it's getting to be a rare thing these days.
dogs are great pets
I wish owned a home and yard that was big enough to allow me to keep a large dog, but I'm in a small apartment, and can't stand those tiny boutique creatures that I see people walking around the neighborhood.
I'm partial to Labs and Retrievers but wouldn't subject such a large dog to being cooped up in my small place.
Think of a list of attributes necessary to be, if not a good spouse, then at least not a bad one. I don't mean "plays piano" or "takes walks in the morning", I mean the baseline. "Not given to violent behavior". "Law abiding". "Not addicted to any behavior altering substances (such as alcoholics or meth users)". "Chaste (no sexual relationships outside of marriage)".
Thin the population with those standards, and you'll find more and more women, relative to the men. It won't be an awe-inspiring gulf, but there will be a disparity. I know a lot more women than men who had to lower their standards because they weren't married, wanted to be, and couldn't find anyone else interested. As I said, not a vast chasm, but a noticible pit certainly. Not every man of virtue would need to take a second or third wife, but a few would. Be ye not unequally yoked.
What many opponents of plural marriage forget is that, even at its height, polygamy wasn't practiced by that many people in Utah (iirc, 10%, maybe 20)
I like big dogs too.
But when my cousin asked me to take care of her toy poodle while she went on vacation, I held my nose and took the responsibility--but a week later I had to admit that dog was a lot of fun. Very smart animal.
A man who cannot be faithful to one woman falls below the baseline. The words "decent," "respectable," or "responsible" do not apply to this kind of "man." A woman would be better off single than to lower herself to this kind of humiliation.
There are not an equal number of men and women of child-bearing age. There are more men than women. Some people will do anything to rationalize their behavior, rather than see themselves for the perverts they are.
Well of course it was defined that way in Genesis 3. That's all there was then--One man and One woman.
David was not condemned for his plural wives until after he lusted after Bathsheba.
Sounds a little more "normal" now doesn't it?
What happened to "Thou shalt not judge..."?
So you admit there is more than one kind of polygamy.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints still believes in the righteous practice of polygamy in much the same way it believes in the practice of animal sacrifice.
Both were appropriate for their time, until God called for a fulfillment of that particular practice.
All polygamy is sinful.
Every unsaved, unconverted, unspiritual person that clings to thier sin will at some time throw out a small portion of Scripture, that they do not believe anyway based on thier arguements/position and cry out "thou shalt not judge".
Be assured that the Bible encourages proper, spiritual judgement. It commands it. It does prohibit/discourage/condemn only hypocritcal judgement.
Since I do not condone or practice polygamy, I am not being hypocritical in condemning it.
The Mormon church is one of the saddest and shabbiest of Satan's end time deceptions. Holy underwear? Plural wives? Missing golden plates? Indian Jews? A peep-stone wiedling drunkard prophet who wrote "scripture" so that he could steel another man's wife? Family values? Lucifer as the half brother of Jesus?
Mormonism is Satanic AND pathetic.
Only a blind fool would find anything redeeming or spiritual in mormonism.
You cannot be a Mormon and be a Christian - and no Mormon will ever be born again and see the Father without repenting of his false gods and forsaking every single teaching of Joseph Smith.
Polygamy--we knew this was coming, didn't we?
You can read the Bible as a rule book or as an insight into the ways of G-d and His relationship with His people. It has elements of both.
David's plural wives were not condemned directly, although they were condemned in the passage about not multiplying wives. But it was clearly David's willingness to ingulge his appetites, including multiple wives, that eventually lead to his most egregious sin - the murder of Uriah to cover up David's adultery.
The concept is also made clear when Abraham tries to fulfill G-d's promise through Hagar rather than his wife Sarah. G-d does not bless Ishmael nor pass the promise through him. G-d blesses Isaac who is the product of Abraham's only legitimate wife.
Abraham had no reason to think he was wrong to father a child through Hagar. It was normal in Chaldean society for men to do this to have an heir. However, G-d's ways are not man's ways. G-d went to a lot of trouble to bring Abraham out of Chaldea to a place where G-d could teach Abraham what He wanted for us. And in the issue of marriage Ishmael and Isaac became the focal points of the lesson. G-d intends for a man to marry one woman and to father all his children through her.
Keep in mind that G-d also doesn't condemn divorce. He actually creates a law for it. But He also makes it clear that He hates it. While we are fallen He makes allowances for things that He doesn't intend. Our goal as the fallen is to try to give Him what he intends - not look for excuses to do things our own way.
Shalom.
You are full of crap.
Do you know what the worst part of you spending eternity in hell for spreading your apostate version of Christianity will be?
Me, right along side of you telling you eternally "I told you so, I told you so!"
Let me get this correct:
"Holy underwear? Plural wives? Missing golden plates? Indian Jews? A peep-stone wiedling drunkard prophet who wrote "scripture" so that he could steel another man's wife? Family values? Lucifer as the half brother of Jesus?"
is NOT apostate but orthodox to you?
And you claim, proudly, that you are going to Hell?
You must be an orthodox apostate.
Abraham did not "try" to fulfill God's promises through Ishmael. He knew which lineage was the one of promise. That is why he took Isaac with him for the sacrifice and not the son of the bondwoman.
I'm not saying Abraham was perfect, but I don't recall any scripture ever saying he was evil or wrong for having more than one wife. To the contrary, I only recall Abraham being referred to as "righteous".
I agree there are, and have been, cultural conditions that make certain practices desirable or necessary, and God allows man to do them while it is appropriate. However, I also think those that practice polygamy today are doing so under their own desires while trying to fool us (and likely themselves) into thinking God wants them to do it. This is the essence of "...multiplying wives unto themselves...".
As a matter of faith I do not believe that was the case with the Mormons from ~1840 to 1890.
:^)
"You cannot be a Mormon and be a Christian - and no Mormon will ever be born again and see the Father without repenting of his false gods and forsaking every single teaching of Joseph Smith."
*you hear an irritating buzzer* WRONGO, but thanks for sharing that you care so much for us sinful Mormons...la
But this after Abraham had already tried to fulfill the promise through Hagar and G-d had told him that wasn't the right way and that G-d would provide a son.
I would agree with you on one point. While I do believe that marriage is only supposed to be between two, polygamy is a sin the way obesity is a sin, not the way homosexuaity is a sin.
Shalom.
Why start now?
All of the "things" you mention are in the Bible, you just cannot see them because you are spiritually blind.
But everything else you mention are the inventions of the fevered minds of anti-Mormons, and outright lies.
Joseph Smith was not a drunkard; did not steal anyone's wives; the Book of Mormon does not say the Indians are Jews; ancient writing on metal plates has been repeatedly documented; and the Bible says Lucifer came from the same place Jesus did (making him not a half but a whole brother).
I do not proudly claim I am going to hell, but (apparently) unlike you, I acknowledge my imperfections, but hope and pray that Christ's mercy and grace will apply to me. No, I do not accept the apostate belief that mere profession of a belief in Christ will save me. Those who profess a belief in Christ must be careful to maintain good works. James Chapter 2.
If you continue in the path you are on I may yet see you in that place. Have a nice day anyway.
It may not affect you or me personally, but it affects the women involved, the children involved, and society in general. It's a bad idea for our current society, which is why it's illegal. At one time it may have been necessary (say, in Biblical times). More wives = more children = more workers doing the grueling chores. But today's society doesn't operate that way.
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