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Students Learn Intelligent Design
Phillyburbs.com ^ | January 18, 2005 | Martha Raffaele

Posted on 01/19/2005 8:52:24 AM PST by FeeinTennessee

Pa. Students Learn 'Intelligent Design' By MARTHA RAFFAELE The Associated Press

HARRISBURG, Pa. - High school students heard about "intelligent design" for the first time Tuesday in a school district that attracted national attention by requiring students to be made aware of it as an alternative to the theory of evolution.

Administrators in the Dover Area School District read a statement to three biology classes Tuesday and were expected to read it to other classes on Wednesday, according to a statement from the Thomas More Law Center in Ann Arbor, Mich., which was speaking on the district's behalf.

The district is believed to be the only one in the nation to require students to hear about intelligent design - a concept that holds that the universe is so complex, it had to be created by an unspecified guiding force.

"The revolution in evolution has begun," said Richard Thompson, the law center's president and chief counsel. "This is the first step in which students will be given an honest scientific evaluation of the theory of evolution and its problems."

The case represents the newest chapter in a history of evolution lawsuits dating back to the Scopes Monkey Trial in Tennessee nearly 80 years ago. In Georgia, a suburban Atlanta school district plans to challenge a federal judge's order to remove stickers in science textbooks that call evolution "a theory, not a fact."

The law center is defending the Dover district against a federal lawsuit filed on behalf of eight families by two civil-liberties groups that alleged intelligent design is merely a secular variation of creationism, the biblical-based view that regards God as the creator of life. They maintain that the Dover district's curriculum mandate may violate the constitutional separation of church and state.

"Students who sat in the classroom were taught material which is religious in content, not scientific, and I think it's unfortunate that has occurred," said Eric Rothschild, a Philadelphia attorney representing the plaintiffs in the federal lawsuit.

Biology teacher Jennifer Miller said although she was able to make a smooth transition to her evolution lesson after the statement was read, some students were upset that administrators would not entertain any questions about intelligent design.

"They were told that if you have any questions, to take it home," Miller said.

The district allowed students whose parents objected to the policy to be excused from hearing the statement at the beginning of class and science teachers who opposed the requirement to be exempted from reading the statement. About 15 of 170 ninth-graders asked to be excused from class, Thompson said.

A federal judge has scheduled a trial in the lawsuit for Sept. 26.

---

Dover Area School District: http://www.dover.k12.pa.us

Thomas More Law Center: http://www.thomasmore.org

January 18, 2005 6:44 PM


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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To: narby
OTOH, here's a thought: Suppose our civilization is destroyed so utterly that there is no record of it, except as legend, among the few surviving humans.

Suppose that after tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of years, civilization returns. The scientists of that day find a problem:

There are a group of related canine species of many sizes. It seems, from the fossil record, that there had been only a few species 100,000 years before, but suddenly, over seemingly less than 5,000 years, dozens of branches suddenly developed that further evolved into separate, though clearly related species.

Could those future scientists and interested laymen be having the same debate we are now: Was this branching of species (as well as that of cattle and several other creatures) the results of pure random chance or some intelligent intervention?

To a certain extent, Intelligent Design is proved: Humans have manipulated evolution, through breeding, hybridization, and, now genetic manipulation. We are a known "I" in ID.

Given that, is it inconceivable that there is some lost manipulator in our past. Perhaps life arose spontaneously, but was guided along in its development. Perhaps we are that future civilization with lost forebears, whose few survivors of catastrophe are now only remembered as Noah and his family.

Even the alien theory would work here -- one spontaneously rising intelligent species by chance could then guide further planets.

This is all science fictiony speculation, sure. But if there are aspects of evolution that don't appear entirely by chance, we need not have God or any deity enter the argument.

81 posted on 01/19/2005 10:16:03 AM PST by Celtjew Libertarian (Shake Hands with the Serpent: Poetry by Charles Lipsig aka Celtjew http://books.lulu.com/lipsig)
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To: JeffAtlanta; nmh
I was once on the other side in these type discussions years ago and I always thought the evolutionists were pretty rude too. Looking back at it, many of them were in fact asses, but I can also understand their tone as well because they were perpetually peppered by false arguments in a very authoritative tone.

That is a great assesment of the problem. We who defend evolution allow our selves to take the bait of Creationists and respond rudely as a result. I am guilty of it myself.

82 posted on 01/19/2005 10:17:44 AM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: Born to Conserve; narby
Let it go, you can't win in a debate with these people.

Clearly. What is the alternative though?

Evolution and creationism are not incompatible.Amen.

83 posted on 01/19/2005 10:19:31 AM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: snarks_when_bored
Teaching biology students both evolution and 'intelligent design' makes about as much sense as teaching astrophysics students to calculate planetary orbits using both a Copernican (heliocentric) model and a Ptolemaic (geocentric) model.

Which made a lot of sense, before the Copernican model was proved....

Mind you, the Sun isn't the center of the universe either, and some orbital varation -- as well as eccentric orbits of various comets, planetoids, etc., may well turn out to be due to objects outside our solar system.

Copernican works well-enough for most of what we've need so far. But in the future, we may need something more.

84 posted on 01/19/2005 10:20:01 AM PST by Celtjew Libertarian (Shake Hands with the Serpent: Poetry by Charles Lipsig aka Celtjew http://books.lulu.com/lipsig)
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To: Savagemom
True. For evolution to occur in the time alloted it would be necessary for each evolving animal to have forethought about what it was evolving into and then judiciously and perfectly coordinate the timing of all those evolving systems. In other words, it takes more than a pair of wings to make a bird.
85 posted on 01/19/2005 10:20:37 AM PST by Mulch
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To: FeeinTennessee

The difference between the two is some religions teach values or rights and wrongs about being civil in a world that teeters on implosion, this creates a fabric for a society to survive and this is its real power not who created it. Other less desirable religions cause death and hatred in a tormented logic bent on implosion. Science should only care about understanding what we have found ourselves to exist in and why, not to battle God as wrong because it doesn't matter. Science has enough to consume with whats already on its plate.


86 posted on 01/19/2005 10:21:12 AM PST by TheForceOfOne
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To: Born to Conserve
God made all of Creation in six days, but he made it look 5 billion years old. There, that satisfies all rational people. Argument settled. Go home.

There are two possibilities. 1) God made the world in 6 days, but put lots of stuff in it to make it look very much older.

2) God made the world in 4 billion years featuring a neat invention we call "Evolution", but some peoples interpretation of the Bible is wrong.

Since no two denominations can agree on the meaning of the important parts of the Bible, I prefer to think that #2 is the correct answer. I just don't think God plays practical jokes like making the world old just to mess with us.

87 posted on 01/19/2005 10:21:27 AM PST by narby (If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.)
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To: narby

What do you call people who are wrong? Evolutionists! :-D
LOL!


88 posted on 01/19/2005 10:21:52 AM PST by freepertoo
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
This is all science fictiony speculation, sure.

So, you want to teach fictiony speculation and call it science?

That'd be great for the creative writing class, but thats just not "science".

89 posted on 01/19/2005 10:27:18 AM PST by narby (If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.)
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To: NJ Neocon

The "theory" of "evolution" is an insult to our God given brain.


90 posted on 01/19/2005 10:28:20 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: FeeinTennessee

Regardless of where you stand on the debate, children and adults should be taught all possible "theories". It is fair and balanced just like FOX!


91 posted on 01/19/2005 10:29:18 AM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: Mulch
For evolution to occur in the time alloted it would be necessary for each evolving animal to have forethought about what it was evolving into

Really? Who sez? You?

92 posted on 01/19/2005 10:29:22 AM PST by narby (If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.)
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To: narby

making the world old = making the world appear old


93 posted on 01/19/2005 10:30:48 AM PST by narby (If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.)
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To: Celtjew Libertarian

You are partially referring to a theory called "Directed Panspermia". It was put forth by Francis Crick about 30 years ago. It goes like this: Life originated somewhere and intelligent life evolved. They were "lonely". They packaged several types of microbes into spacecraft realizing that they couldn't go themselves. Whenever that space craft found an appropriate planet it dropped a packet of seeds ("spermia"). They grew and evolved into --- "Us". The time is there and the possibility is real. Is is a "good" theory? Probably not, but neither supported nor unsupported. It puts off the "abiogenesis" problem for Earth, but it doesn't say where it happened, only that maybe somewhere else conditions were more ideal than Earth. I don't look down on Crick fore this, he is just stating another idea. (He's dead now so, I guess he can't answer the question as to whether he really believes it - 30 years ago he told me it was partially a joke, but..... wink wink)

Maybe we should teach this in school too. Scientists love to play these mind games - it helps them to be more innovative in their thinking. Nothing is tossed out without thorough examination and even discarded ideas sometimes enjoy a new life if conditions warrant.


94 posted on 01/19/2005 10:30:50 AM PST by furball4paws ("These are Microbes."... "You have crobes?" BC)
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To: narby
"You're delusional."

Of course, when cornered resort to childish name calling.

There is NO evidence that supports evolution or were YOU there when it happened? LOL!
95 posted on 01/19/2005 10:31:37 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Savagemom

Two mistakes in your analysis.

You are assuming that the changes take place at the same time.

You are assuming that the end result is given. This is identical to assuming a particular deal of a set of cards will occur (odds 1 in about 10**67) whereas some deal will occur.


96 posted on 01/19/2005 10:31:55 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
Teaching biology students both evolution and 'intelligent design' makes about as much sense as teaching astrophysics students to calculate planetary orbits using both a Copernican (heliocentric) model and a Ptolemaic (geocentric) model.

Which made a lot of sense, before the Copernican model was proved....

That time is past. And, yes, of course, there are perturbations to be accounted for. But the Copernican model is broadly correct in a way that the Ptolemaic model is not. And to teach astrophysics students (qua astrophysics students rather than, say, history of science students) the Ptolemaic model as a calculational tool would be an utter waste of their valuable time.

And, yes, science is a work in progress—it's always on the way towards truth. But I've posted on that topic on earlier threads, so I won't belabor that point.

97 posted on 01/19/2005 10:32:12 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine
I really liked that scientific theory of Apollo carrying the sun across the sky. We should teach that.

Did'nt the Egyptions have some neat scientific theories about life after death. We must teach those in government schools too. They're just as valid as Evolution you know.

98 posted on 01/19/2005 10:33:04 AM PST by narby (If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.)
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To: narby

Why do you think only fools believe in the literal translation of Genesis? I am curious as to what your definition of a fool is? I see a fool as someone that opens their mouth without really spending time in critical thought, carefully studying all the possibilities and then making a decision as to what they believe. It appears you know very little about Richard Thompson or the law center he represents. Happy Hunting!


99 posted on 01/19/2005 10:33:53 AM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: Born to Conserve
God made all of Creation in six days, but he made it look 5 billion years old.

Actually, She made it Thursday Last but it looks 5 billion years old.

100 posted on 01/19/2005 10:34:08 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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